Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 11
06-27-2012, 02:18 PM
Sciscorts are OP in PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 235
# 12
06-27-2012, 02:24 PM
As far as PvP is concerned, offensive science powers are indeed nerfed in comparison to straight-up escort dps. While any career can fly whatever damned ship they please, please be aware that unless you roll tactical you will never be at the top of the offensive ladder. Science skills used to provide a good measure of dps to make up for science ships' lackluster offense. The problem with rolling a science officer is making sure you choose the proper powers to focus on. Grav well is fine for PvE (great CC, and it aggro's if you like to tank), but poor for PvP unless you're facing hordes of carrier pets...I wouldn't rely on it for dps.

Depending on the build, you might not require aux power to be at maximum, so again, pick what powers you want to use and build the ship around them. That's the main problem with science: picking the powers, not necessarily the ship, and praying to the computer gods that the Devs don't feel like nerfing that particular science power *again*. In essence, don't even approach science as anything other than a shield healing engineer with a few fancy powers that are incredibly situational in PvP and mostly useless in a PvE realm dominated by dps meters. :frown:

While I'm an engineer, flying a Nebula has given me the most fun (when the torpedoes decide to fire), but I do so knowing that, ultimately, I am not useful in a fleet STF filled with escorts who know what they're doing. I'm slightly more helpful in PvP for certain situations, but even then it's mostly healing. Science vessels require skill and an ability to take one for the team, which is why most people decide to fly an escort :tongue:

Addendum: glitched or not, PSW3 deals 14k base damage to an unshielded hull, and never underestimate the 2-3s disable it puts on ships in PvP.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10
# 13
06-28-2012, 07:44 AM
If you still want to give your sci-ship you currently have a try, i'd suggest DBB in front (with a torp) and turrets in the back.
The turnrate of sci-ships isn't that bad, so you can keep most targest in front of you, and those which are too fast just need to be caught with a gravwell.

Also don't forget the build-in subsytemtargeting, which is just basically four free tac-ensigns on board.

The downside to sci-ships is, yeah, you have to skill in the third part of your skill tree for the sci abilities (and better polaron weapons as a side effect), but in general you can skill all 3 carrers the same for space.

Subnucleonic beam is the only sci-skill with a limited area, the 90? front, but at least in an escort that's no problem, and shouldn't be with a cruiser, since the CD is high anyway.

Regarding the aux-power setting: I always just use EP2Aux for the sci-skills, and put the free power in weapons and/or shields/engines.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 23
# 14
06-28-2012, 08:01 AM
My main is a science officer in a science ship since beta and there is nothing wrong with the class or the ships; It's just a matter of choosing the right abilities to match your play style and matching up the right ship.

They say science ships are weak Ha. When myself in any science ship
Deep space science vessel,
long range science vessel,
Reconnaissance science vessel;
Atrox Carrier
or the Nebula - (butt ugly) but nice stats

paired with the new escort carrier can wipe out 3 groups of the Mirror Event before the other "guys" have finished with their group says something about science ships.


Science vessels shine when grouped up with friends and pugs alike. If you need some help send me a pm here and I'll do best to answer your questions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 235
# 15
06-28-2012, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagabum View Post
Science vessels shine when grouped up with friends and pugs alike. If you need some help send me a pm here and I'll do best to answer your questions.

Actually, I've found that I'm near-useless when running STFs with my fleet. This is because we already will have a cruiser/carrier tank, and the rest know how to fly/use their escorts to maximize their dps. When I fly my nebula, my CC or tanking simply isn't needed; sure, I can debuff here and there, but overall I could be replaced by another escort and they might finish it even faster/more efficiently. Still, this is more of a jab at how PvE is structured, and not necessarily at science in general. Although I still think the damage potential of rank III science skills need a buff, so that way you wouldn't have MVAEs or other vessels abusing the Lt. Comm station tier slot. Kinda like how PSW jumps from 4k to 14k when going from II to III, lol. I wanna see a grav well kicking out 1k dps at 58 aux, darn it! :biggrin:
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 642
# 16
06-28-2012, 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mehen View Post
Actually, I've found that I'm near-useless when running STFs with my fleet. This is because we already will have a cruiser/carrier tank, and the rest know how to fly/use their escorts to maximize their dps. When I fly my nebula, my CC or tanking simply isn't needed; sure, I can debuff here and there, but overall I could be replaced by another escort and they might finish it even faster/more efficiently. Still, this is more of a jab at how PvE is structured, and not necessarily at science in general. Although I still think the damage potential of rank III science skills need a buff, so that way you wouldn't have MVAEs or other vessels abusing the Lt. Comm station tier slot. Kinda like how PSW jumps from 4k to 14k when going from II to III, lol. I wanna see a grav well kicking out 1k dps at 58 aux, darn it! :biggrin:
A science vessel can be plenty useful/powerful. The issue is that it takes a bit of skill, but more importantly, work.

I run a Recon Science vessel in STFs, and can do fairly well. For example, in Khitomer Accord, I can take the right side and have both cubes spawned (ie. blow up two generators on each transformer) before my team makes it over without missing a probe. To do this I have to work quickly deploying the right abilities at the right times, constantly maneuvering into the right spot, and managing power. I default to high weapons power with a bit in shields and aux, and I switch to high aux before firing something off. This maximized DPS.

Cruisers and escorts are easier since most of their damage comes from weapons, so they don't have to worry about messing with aux power and using abilities to try and do damage.
===
Anyways, this is largely independent of character class. Engineers bring some tankiness to the table and can improve power transfer which can in turn improve DPS. Tac captains are straight up weapon damage, though APA is nice on cruisers due to the turn boost. Science is standard buffs and debuffs, but sensor scan helps the team do more DPS (and there's a doff that also causes it to lower the targets DPS) while photonic fleet does damage as well, so can work just as well on an escort. Obviously the primary capabilities of a ship are best benefited by a captain of the right class (nothing DPSes like a Tac/Escort, the best tank is a Eng/Cruiser, and a Sci/Sci has unparalelled control of the field), but going off class can shore up weaknesses, and can give you advantages in other areas.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 632
# 17
06-28-2012, 06:55 PM
Okay, as somone who's leveled a science captain the hard way i can give you some advice.

Science ships are slow, agrevating and painful. Plain and simple. The issue is that the vast majority of science boff abilities that aren't heals are of very limited use in solo PVE content. My current science build, (specifics later), on my VA character works wonders in STF's, but aside from it's tasnking it brings nothing of any consuquence to solo work.

My best advice is that you need to decide now what your going to run at cap. Reconnissiance or not? The only way (in STF's at least), to viably sheild tank is to use cycling tac team. Distribute is just too slow to properly keep up and you can't heal fast enough without taking full advantage of multi-sheild heals to get by on ability heals alone. As such unless your willing to run with nothing but tac team your going to have to set up your tank as a hull tank on a non-reconissiance sciene ship.

Use your engeneeirs for Engeneeiring team and AtSIF. Bring an approppriatte Doff. Healing should focus on Hazard Emitters. Feel free however to drop a DOFF on giving Brace a nice sheild heal. It's a great panic button for when everything else is on CD. Beyond that i recommend you run maxed Aux power and throw the rest at Sheilds. For that reason i recommend regeneratice sheilds as it takes maximum advantage of your increased regen and means even once your sheilds go down, every blow is ablated at least a litiile.

Weaponry. I would go for a Dual beam bank up front and then load everything else out with photon torps, (they have best DPS and you don;t have enough slots to have an issue with overlapping CD's), stick to torp damage tac consles btw. The only thing i'd otheriwse be tempted to put in is a plasma mine launcher, that through sheilds plasma burn is suprisingly powerfl in PVE.

For the rest of your Boff powers it's upto you, for solo PVE Feedback pulse and Tachyon beam work great. But both are bassiclly a waste once you hit STF's. You can't survive enough damage to make feedback relevant and between the massive sheilds of the stuff that does have sheilds and the long list of stuff that dosen't have sheilds, there isn't a huge benefit to Tachyon Beam. The latter also interferes with your real star ability. Grav Well 3. In Group PVE and specificlly STF's it's ability to pin enemies down and stp them moving is a huge advantage. Just don't expect to be stopping stuff on your own, you can pin them down but your not going to kill them alone. As such it's more useful when your down to one gate on Khitomor, or in Infected for holding back the nanites stuff. With aftershocks and a deflector doff to lower CD's it's especially dealy. Not sure if multipule DOFF's stack for multipule Aftershocks, but if so i'm gong to have lots of fun in the future .

When not using it to control stuff it's pure kenetic damage type and lots of it also makes it good on generators, transformers and gateways. In khitimor i'm fojd of droping sensor scan and Grav well o one generator and burning another down while grav well takes care of the first one on it's own.

Beyond that it's kind of up in the air.

My current build, (deep space ship for me):

2xEngT1, 1xEtSIF1
1xTHY 1xTHY2
2xJS1, 2xTR1, 2xHE3, 1xGW3

TBH i'm finding the second tractor repulsors pretty usless, and both copies of jam sensors even more so, but not sure what to replace with ATM.


Overall though science is ng and slow, but you die very littile so it kind of evens out, though i recommend skipping the romulan episodes. They're hell to do as those high yeild plasma torps really hurt.

Last edited by carl103; 06-28-2012 at 06:59 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 642
# 18
06-28-2012, 08:19 PM
Here's what I use:
Reconnaissance Science Vessel:
Tactical team I
Beam Fire at Will I, Torpedo Spread II
Emergency Power to Shields I, Axillary Power to Structural I (in reserve: extend shields I)
Polarize Hull I, Hazard Emitters II, Charged Particle Burst II
Hazard Emitters I, Transfer Shield Strength II, Gravity Well I, Tyken's Rift III
(I can swap Boffs to get GW II or CPB II as well)

Fit uses Tetryon Beams, 1 DBB 1 Array fore, 2 arrays rear, and a fore and read quantum torpedo launcher. Always want to be swapping power between the weapons and axillary. High flow capacitor strips shields to set up a torpedo barrage on multiple targets. Not so great and taking down fixed targets (ie. nanites) but it excelles at running interference, GW holds stuff in plce to keep them away from gate/kang, and heals help if anything reaches Kang, plus you are able to stay topped off even in the face in heavy firepower. If you want to get less tanky, you can drop a hazard emitters for another charged particle burst.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 235
# 19
06-29-2012, 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor63549 View Post
A science vessel can be plenty useful/powerful. The issue is that it takes a bit of skill, but more importantly, work.

I run a Recon Science vessel in STFs, and can do fairly well. For example, in Khitomer Accord, I can take the right side and have both cubes spawned (ie. blow up two generators on each transformer) before my team makes it over without missing a probe. To do this I have to work quickly deploying the right abilities at the right times, constantly maneuvering into the right spot, and managing power. I default to high weapons power with a bit in shields and aux, and I switch to high aux before firing something off. This maximized DPS.

Cruisers and escorts are easier since most of their damage comes from weapons, so they don't have to worry about messing with aux power and using abilities to try and do damage.
===
Anyways, this is largely independent of character class. Engineers bring some tankiness to the table and can improve power transfer which can in turn improve DPS. Tac captains are straight up weapon damage, though APA is nice on cruisers due to the turn boost. Science is standard buffs and debuffs, but sensor scan helps the team do more DPS (and there's a doff that also causes it to lower the targets DPS) while photonic fleet does damage as well, so can work just as well on an escort. Obviously the primary capabilities of a ship are best benefited by a captain of the right class (nothing DPSes like a Tac/Escort, the best tank is a Eng/Cruiser, and a Sci/Sci has unparalelled control of the field), but going off class can shore up weaknesses, and can give you advantages in other areas.
Oh, I know science can be very useful/helpful, but what I'm saying is that science is more of a jack-of-all-trades atm, which is bad for the clearly defined roles in an STF. Most people only want the one tank, so they don't need a secondary one, even if it's pumping out dps on par with most PUG escorts. Though I will say that, as an engineer, my class skills are rarely used as compared to when I fly an escort. I'm too tanky to really be using miracle worker outside the rare instance, and I only use EPS transfer a few times a match. I think the best combo is, either sci/sci or tac/sci, since they enhance a specific part of your abilities to push your science vessel past that jack-of-all-trades middling. Like I said, though, if they would up the damage on top tier science skills, you'd see a lot more people using science vessels to take advantage of that increased dps. CC only counts for so much, especially when a fleet of escorts will just scatter/spread that mob to dust in no time.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:08 AM.