Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 21
07-01-2012, 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716maikai View Post
never mind that the borg adapt to everything they encounter. sometimes after only one encounter....

thats in the show and films too right?

and time traveling borg spheres that try to wipe out humanity without a second thought...
and dont even get me started on which cannon to follow, the books or the shows...
You forgot that they loose their abilities when they loose their members. Like when the Federation rescue Picard, and took him from the borg, they no longer had his memories so they lost their abillity to outmatch all of starfleet. Plus they lost their first queen, so that's more memories and adapations gone.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 629
# 22
07-01-2012, 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
You forgot that they loose their abilities when they loose their members. Like when the Federation rescue Picard, and took him from the borg, they no longer had his memories so they lost their abillity to outmatch all of starfleet. Plus they lost their first queen, so that's more memories and adapations gone.
That contradicts what has been said about the Borg. According to 7 of 9:

Quote:
When a drone is damaged beyond repair it is discarded, but it's memories continue to exist in the Collective consciousness. To use a human term, the Borg are immortal.
^From the episode Mortal Coil.

Even after the crew of the Enterprise rescued Picard the Borg still knew all he had known up till that point. No doubt that is the reason why so many different classes of ship were put in to production after Wolf 359, while before that battle most of the fleet seems to have been made up of Excelsiors and Mirandas.
My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 23
07-01-2012, 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlamstrike View Post
That contradicts what has been said about the Borg. According to 7 of 9:



^From the episode Mortal Coil.

Even after the crew of the Enterprise rescued Picard the Borg still knew all he had known up till that point. No doubt that is the reason why so many different classes of ship were put in to production after Wolf 359, while before that battle most of the fleet seems to have been made up of Excelsiors and Mirandas.
Thats not the reason they built new ships just to fight the Borg. They were at war with the Dominion which needed many new type ships of all shapes and sizes.

Your reference Star Trek Voyager for what 7 of 9 said but you forgot an the end of the show the Queen and the whole collective under her were destroyed by the nano virus created in the future. They have no orders without the queen, and the knowlege is lost.

I have all the shows on DVD and can look at any episode when I feel like it.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 43
# 24
07-02-2012, 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlamstrike View Post
That contradicts what has been said about the Borg. According to 7 of 9:



^From the episode Mortal Coil.

Even after the crew of the Enterprise rescued Picard the Borg still knew all he had known up till that point. No doubt that is the reason why so many different classes of ship were put in to production after Wolf 359, while before that battle most of the fleet seems to have been made up of Excelsiors and Mirandas.
I thought thats why the Borg took those parts off their dead drones before either destroying the body or beaming it up and scavenging parts. I would think that that if there was a done that had significant importance to the collective, like Picard, that the queen would make damn sure she had a back up of his memories somewhere in case something happened to him.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 629
# 25
07-02-2012, 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Thats not the reason they built new ships just to fight the Borg. They were at war with the Dominion which needed many new type ships of all shapes and sizes.
The Defiant class was built to fight the Borg, the design process began around 2367 the year of the 1st Borg attack. All the new ships that were shown in First Contact had to have been built in the years between Wolf 359 and the Battle of Sector 001. In First Contact we see 4 Saber class, 3 Akiras, 3 Norways, 6 Steamrunners. Its hard to believe that all those ship classes had their prototype ship be laid down, launched, be fitted out, pass trials, then be approved for production then have another batch of ships built on the same process in 3 years since anyone heard of The Dominion. IRL it takes a year for say a Guided Missile Destroyer to go from having its keel laid to being launched and another couple of years before its commissioned as an active duty ship, something that is a cutting edge design could take years just to get it to launching.

Quote:
Your reference Star Trek Voyager for what 7 of 9 said but you forgot an the end of the show the Queen and the whole collective under her were destroyed by the nano virus created in the future. They have no orders without the queen, and the knowlege is lost.

I have all the shows on DVD and can look at any episode when I feel like it.
If killing the Queen destroyed all the Borg why bother with a Nano Virus? (Actually it was a Neurolytic Pathogen). Why didn't Future-Janeway just shoot her with a Future-Phaser? The Nano Virus must have done more than just killed the Queen. The Nano Virus must have rewritten the Borg's programming in a destructive way and used the Queen to expanded through most/all the collective. I don't see any evidence that it did anything to the Borg collective's memory, it just disrupted the Queen causing the Borg to descend in to chaos.
My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 26
07-02-2012, 05:00 PM
Go back and watch the end of the show of Star Trek Voyager and also listen to the intodutory done by voice of Spock in the game. He explains that the borg had to nearly had start from scratch aftter being destroyed by Admiral Janeway. The would suggest that that alot of important old memories were lost. Also think about this? If the life experiences were so muched saved afte borgs were rescued or left the collective, then why would the Queen persue to get them back and try to stop idividuals from leaving. You are mistaking borg for pure machines run by computers. A mind in the collective will not have unique perspective if they were just memories. If they never lost memories from lost borg, then why not build a bunch of robots to replace them.

Salvaging parts from dead drones has nothing to do with memory since the cortical nodes and memery chips are deep within the body. You would have to literally gut them and crack the skulls to get to those parts. The parts that are collected by other borg drones are superficial parts that function as communication arrays andd subspace wave links. Its not different in the real military where when wer lose a vehicle in battle, we collect the communication equipment, and things that store battle plans, or schematics.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 629
# 27
07-02-2012, 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Go back and watch the end of the show of Star Trek Voyager and also listen to the intodutory done by voice of Spock in the game. He explains that the borg had to nearly had start from scratch aftter being destroyed by Admiral Janeway. The would suggest that that alot of important old memories were lost. Also think about this? If the life experiences were so muched saved afte borgs were rescued or left the collective, then why would the Queen persue to get them back and try to stop idividuals from leaving. You are mistaking borg for pure machines run by computers. A mind in the collective will not have unique perspective if they were just memories. If they never lost memories from lost borg, then why not build a bunch of robots to replace them.
This voice over?
Quote:
Once thought to be an unstoppable force, the Borg were dealt a heavy blow by Kathryn Janeway and the crew of the U.S.S. Voyager.

But the Borg are nothing if not resilient. They retreated, waited, planned ... and they adapted.

These are not the nightmares of Wolf 359. They are faster. Aggressive. Relentless. Remorseless.

What the Borg cannot assimilate, they will destroy.
or this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc--DwcATdM

I fail to see anything about the Borg rebuilding after losing their memory.

The reason why they go to great trouble to keep Borg in the collective:

Quote:
Salvaging parts from dead drones has nothing to do with memory since the cortical nodes and memery chips are deep within the body. You would have to literally gut them and crack the skulls to get to those parts. The parts that are collected by other borg drones are superficial parts that function as communication arrays andd subspace wave links. Its not different in the real military where when wer lose a vehicle in battle, we collect the communication equipment, and things that store battle plans, or schematics.
You answered it. Look at Seven of Nine. How many episodes did she use some knowledge or replicated a technology she gained from being Borg? If all the Borg (or all the Borg in a specific range) are linked as one mind then everything being said, done or thought is being experienced by all. One Drone (and its components that store data like the Neural Processor from First Contact) might have the knowledge and experience of millions or billions of Drones. Losing one to the Enemy would be like losing the sum total of all your military knowledge to the enemy.

Also the Borg were unable to disconnect drones from the Collective (See the end of Best of Both Worlds Part II) since it would be like "cutting off your own arm or foot", and thus the Borg always returned for their own (see I, Borg).

For building robots its not the Borg mentality. The Borg consume they don't build, they don't develop, they don't innovate.
My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 28
07-02-2012, 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
No, you can't heal yourself, but you can undo the affect by untargeting and using Science Team. If you attacking your team, then stop attacking, duh. When I get hit, I don't do anything but try to undo the affect.

My complaint is the fact that I can't use it against the Enemy it was designed to confuse, the CUBE. You can confuse most players but there are some who have buffs to negate that affect.
Use Science Team? Is that alex acknowledging a Boff skill? If only he realized they could also balance and redistribute his shields.
All cloaks should be canon.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 29
07-03-2012, 04:54 AM
you guys do realize trying to use the show to make arguments for the game is not going to work right? the game borrows heavly from the movies, shows and books to become its own "universe". so who knows what happens.

the book,

star trek online : needs of the many , sort of goes over this. (due to other events in the books being used in the game but


spoiler alerts-












the borg are wiped out in the books, but not in the game,
an event that happens in the tv shows, effects a deanna troi in that she cant have kids, yet the race the borg are from heals her so she can have kids. this happens in the same books the borg are wiped out, yet the borg are still around in the game, so one would conclude those books never happend. YET in the game, deanna had a child. this could not have happened unless those books happened yet those books couldnt have happened bcause the borg are still around...

need i say more?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 30
07-03-2012, 02:12 PM
oh, brother. You just blew my head up. Now, I can't think straight. How about this, just fix AMS so that it works against the Borg Cubes. Besides, why are we defending NPC's, anyway?
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