Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 76
# 21
07-06-2012, 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakaishinlegion View Post
Hm... Armitage with access to every CStore console available to make any power build they choose...

...against the free equivalent, the basic Fleet Escort. No CStore upgrades at all.

Put equal skill pilots in the two ships.

If you say it'd be a draw, I'd have to slap you for your inexperience in PvP.
I have an Armitage, a LRSV-R, and the Oddessey package. I cannot put the Ablative Generator in either the Armitage nor any of the Oddies. I cannot put any of the Ody consoles in the Armitage or the LRSV-R. I cannot put the Point Defense system from the Armitage in either the Oddies or the LRSV-R. For that matter, I cannot put it in the Atrox either, and they are both Carriers. Neither can I put those other consoles in the Atrox.

There are a few consoles that can be put in other ships, but it is monumentally factually inaccurate to suggest that you can put "every CStore console available" in the Armitage.

Either way, you can earn Dilithium in the game, and you can convert Dilithium to C-Points (and, eventually, Zen). If you are a Gold subscriber, then you also get a stipend of 400 C-Points per month. As such, there is absolutely nothing in the C-Store that someone paying cash can get that someone cannot get for "free" either by working for it in the game or through patience. That makes your basic premise that you cannot get the same "power" as someone else moot.

"If you're going to attack someone, you may as well do so with fact instead of fiction..."
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 22
07-06-2012, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotaudi View Post
I have an Armitage, a LRSV-R, and the Oddessey package. I cannot put the Ablative Generator in either the Armitage nor any of the Oddies. I cannot put any of the Ody consoles in the Armitage or the LRSV-R. I cannot put the Point Defense system from the Armitage in either the Oddies or the LRSV-R. For that matter, I cannot put it in the Atrox either, and they are both Carriers. Neither can I put those other consoles in the Atrox.

There are a few consoles that can be put in other ships, but it is monumentally factually inaccurate to suggest that you can put "every CStore console available" in the Armitage.

Either way, you can earn Dilithium in the game, and you can convert Dilithium to C-Points (and, eventually, Zen). If you are a Gold subscriber, then you also get a stipend of 400 C-Points per month. As such, there is absolutely nothing in the C-Store that someone paying cash can get that someone cannot get for "free" either by working for it in the game or through patience. That makes your basic premise that you cannot get the same "power" as someone else moot.

"If you're going to attack someone, you may as well do so with fact instead of fiction..."
I'm not arguing that you can't get it with dilithium.

If I put an Armitage with AMS, Theta, Graviton Pulse, and the Torp Spread 3 console against the free equivalent, the Fleet Escort, equal pilots, the Armitage will **** the Fleet Escort from here to hell and back, laughing the whole way.

The difference: I can pay CPonts and get access to these things instantly.

If you were using dilithium, it would take you a great long while.

While you farm dilithium, I'm honing my ability to use these tools in PvP.

By the time you can gather it all and actually use it in PvP, I've already mastered it.

Nevertheless, it would appear "pay to win" is changing a bit regardless with the advent of the Fleet ships... I had a look at them, they are actually quite impressive. And best of all, don't require CPoints (or dilithium)... just contrabution to your fleet starbase.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 23
07-06-2012, 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelshando View Post
Thanks you for derailing the thread from a Quad cannon qustion to a pvp vs pve debate... its really helpful... no really.
But this is actually part of the whole issue with quads. In PvE, targets are largely stationary or sedate at best; buffing their base damage or giving them over 9,000 [Dmg] mods will eventually make them superior to DHCs.

But in PvP, with a lack of even one [Acc] mod you're just not going to hit anything that's moving faster than a drunk wino reaching for the TV remote. Quads aren't bad because of their DPS, it's because you cannot damage anyone if the bolts aren't making contact.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 24
07-06-2012, 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captjamjamz View Post
Quads are getting a buff, just check Tribble. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
This is what irritates me about gaming companies. Caving in to whiny kids when they fail to use their brains.

Quad cannons are fine as they are. Their purpose was to give ships the ability to fight at high speeds while retaining almost the same damage as dual heavy cannons (which eat up wep power thus preventing high engine speed settings).

There is no need to buff them. Instead make the engine power setting a bigger % of the damage output of the guns. Aka a quad cannon running 70 engine 50 weapon (as an example) should be equivalent to a dual heavy cannon running at 90 weapon power. Currently its the equivalent of running the dual heavy at 80 weapon power.
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Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 373
# 25
07-06-2012, 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
This is what irritates me about gaming companies. Caving in to whiny kids when they fail to use their brains.

Quad cannons are fine as they are. Their purpose was to give ships the ability to fight at high speeds while retaining almost the same damage as dual heavy cannons (which eat up wep power thus preventing high engine speed settings).

There is no need to buff them. Instead make the engine power setting a bigger % of the damage output of the guns. Aka a quad cannon running 70 engine 50 weapon (as an example) should be equivalent to a dual heavy cannon running at 90 weapon power. Currently its the equivalent of running the dual heavy at 80 weapon power.
That only works if you can mount all quads. right now you can only have 1 and would gimping your damage just to boost 1 weapon system. If you could put 3 or 4 quads on a ship then that could work. right now though running 1 quad and 2 to 3 DHC would make that worthless.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 722
# 26
07-07-2012, 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captjamjamz View Post
Quads are getting a buff, just check Tribble. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Would you be willing to tell us just what the buff entails for those of us who have not purchased the Tier 4 Escort/Raptor from the C/Z-store on Tribble?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 223
# 27
07-07-2012, 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakaishinlegion View Post
Hm... Armitage with access to every CStore console available to make any power build they choose...

...against the free equivalent, the basic Fleet Escort. No CStore upgrades at all.

Put equal skill pilots in the two ships.

If you say it'd be a draw, I'd have to slap you for your inexperience in PvP.
Then get ready to be slap-blocked because:

A) You're comparing consoles, not ships.
B) You're still giving up console slots you could have used for free consoles (which, surprise surprise, also give a ship more power )
C) The consoles you mentioned in your second post (theta & graviton) are available on the exchange and thus don't require you to spend a penny.

You sir, just got slap-blocked.
Don't fall for the fake advertising: Guild Wars 2 is a WoW clone and a poor one too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 194
# 28
07-07-2012, 02:35 AM
In terms of statistical dps they have more damage than my mk xii borg weapons. actually in game parses show them to have less dps, at least against borg. whether that's just a borg thing due to the [borg] proc or it's due to the [acc] bonus I'm not sure.

Either way, I use them because I like them and they don't suck too badly right now.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 29
07-07-2012, 07:10 AM
It will be down to the borg proc. IMHO we need a way to buy a +borg vershion of them from the STF vendors if we own the originol ship. That modifier is +75DPS, thats pretty hard to beat no matter what.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 30 Couldn't let this one go.
07-07-2012, 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
This is what irritates me about gaming companies. Caving in to whiny kids when they fail to use their brains.

Me: Your near complete lack of understanding on HOW quad cannons work in this game is only out-shined by your rudeness.

Quad cannons are fine as they are. Their purpose was to give ships the ability to fight at high speeds while retaining almost the same damage as dual heavy cannons (which eat up wep power thus preventing high engine speed settings).

Me: They were designed to sell the San Paulo. Current implementation makes them USELESS for high speed fighting. -10 Weapon Power - 10 Engine Power. I'd be thrilled to PvP anyone if they were able (and naive enough) to mount 4. Every few second watching -40 to speed grind them to a halt.

You could run ANY other weapon and have better performance if "High speed fighting" is your goal. FYI my Defiant runs 125/90 in weapons with 70/50 in engines.


There is no need to buff them. Instead make the engine power setting a bigger % of the damage output of the guns. Aka a quad cannon running 70 engine 50 weapon (as an example) should be equivalent to a dual heavy cannon running at 90 weapon power. Currently its the equivalent of running the dual heavy at 80 weapon power.

Me: What you suggest is in fact, a buff. and they would still be useless for anything other than playing this games boring PvE system. [ACC]x2 [CrtD]x2 is what those cannons truly need, since as stated above me, you won't hit anything with them in PvP.

Oh and before you decry PvP'rs whiny kids and whomever else in your world is ticking you off here's another fact: in PvE [ACC] is even better, since the extra [ACC] gets converted to critical severity!

That simple change would make them absolutely a great item. As they are they are useless. This is a step in the right direction. What they really need to do is retool the defiant so that when you have quad cannons equipped it fires your weapons in a canon mode that matches the show. And fix the cannons more.
Seriously... how some people act like "the subject matter expert" on things they have no clue on...

Last edited by ocp001; 07-07-2012 at 07:42 AM.
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