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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
Devs,


Please consider the following changes to improve the game's 'trek' feel and enhance starship combat experience.


1- Reduce the damage output of weapons by half.

2- Increase the regeneration rate of shields by 2x the current rate. (shield stats)

3- Reduce the performance multiplier of boff abilities and capt. abilities by half.

4- Reduce speed of all ships by half.

5- Remove 'full impulse' speed setting from the game. - Have 'evasive maneuvers' be the speed burst ability for all ships and have evasive maneuvers drain all power from weapons and aux (not shields or engine) and put it into engine itself.

6- Reduce the number of 'mk' equipment performance so that there is for once a visible performance gap between equipment types. For example, rather than having Mk1 to Mk12 have only Mk 1, Mk 4, Mk 8 and Mk12. See #8 for what replaces the Mk's in between these.

(no, this isn't crazy talk... now you'll see why)

7- Increase the effect of power settings on weapons/speed/etc by 4x. This will make power setting management the KEY to starship combat. Its trek-like and it makes combat tremendously more fun.

8- Add 'flavor' versions of equipment in between the Mk equipment. For example, Mk 2 and 3 equipment will have the same primary function stats as the Mk1 except they will have the equipment's secondary and tertiary function greatly enhanced. A good example would be a Disruptor weapon. Mk1 will do say 100 damage. Mk2 will be 100 damage but have a very high chance (10% chance) of proc for the secondary effect (10% resist debuff). Mk3 will do 100 damage and have the same Mk1 2.5% chance to proc but the disable buff is greatly increased (to 20%). Mk3 will have the same Base Mk1 stats except the debuff effect lasts twice as long. The Mk4 will jump up in damage to 200 and so on and on.

9- Increase the penalty to turn rate based on ship's speed setting.

These changes will do several things:

It will remove the current dps-centric , in-your-face-blasting type of starship combat and replace it with a trek-like combat environment. Captains will be changing their power levels constantly as the situation requires and since the benefits of said power level increases would be greatly increased from current levels it will allow the ROLE and NICHE of each ship class to truly shine.

It will replace the 'all gear is crap except STF & Mk10 and above' reality as equipment performance will for once be truly different from the Mk above/below it. For once, people might choose to equip a Mk12 regenerative shield with x2 or x3 regen stat rather than a Maco shield because the effect of the regen stat when used with the 4x shield regen bonus from full shield power level would be much more beneficial to some ships than the special bonuses from the Maco shield.

The change in speeds changes the 'visibility' and 'immersion' of combat from a rush-by-shooter (arcade style) that it currently is to a more trek-like visual combat...and enables tactical shield-facing and maneuvering tactics to come into play. In short, it would be similar to how the Tier 1 ships fly and fight (which -IS- very trek-like in my opinion and its in the later tiers that ships become stupidly fast and arcade-ish).
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg

Last edited by cmdrskyfaller; 07-08-2012 at 03:58 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 130
# 2
07-08-2012, 06:26 AM
WOW!, VERY interesting!, i can not say that you have my vote right away, but this is a wonderful post, i am pretty sure that a lot can be done if the devs take a look at it.
Yuxtapuestoelmono, not "Lmrt"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 220
# 3
07-08-2012, 08:32 AM
So you want it to be more like the Starfleet Command series?
If ARC becomes mandatory, I'll never buy ZEN again.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 465
# 4
07-08-2012, 08:57 AM
Sooooo, you want to have the devs stop what they are doing with seasons 6 and 7, completely overhaul the entire space combat system, edit every weapon, every ship, and not to mention remove aspects of the system that people use to get places quickly on a system map. i have to say, there is a better chance of you being assimilated by RL borg than this ever happening.

oh and imagine an odyssey or dreadnaught flying at full speed with your proposed changes. Their turn rate is already that of lunar orbit....

[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.

Last edited by daiouvegeta2; 07-08-2012 at 09:00 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 220
# 5
07-08-2012, 01:03 PM
I'll have to agree with the previous poster in the sense that I do not see such a major overhaul happening soon either. What we have now works well enough, even if it is not a 1:1 copy of the series...
If ARC becomes mandatory, I'll never buy ZEN again.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 6
07-08-2012, 05:43 PM
Quote:
It will remove the current dps-centric , in-your-face-blasting type of starship combat and replace it with a trek-like combat environment.
You need to rethink the maths, if that's your goal, especially for PvE & STFs.

STFs are largely excercises in wearing down a huge target with huge HP as soon as possible. Your changes to the DPS and subsystem energy mechanic have actually increased the damage a weapon will do at 125 power, unbuffed.

(This model excludes skill points, cos you've not touched them)
Under the current system, weapons do their indicated damage at 50 weapons power, ex buffs, and does double their indicated damage at 100 weapon power.

So a DHC with 500 DPS will do that 500 DPS at 50, 1000 DPS at 100 weapon power (200% of displayed), and 1250 at 125 weapons power (250% of displayed). So each 1 point of weapons power changes it by 2%. You make that 4x as effective, and each 1 point of weapons power will change the DPS by 8%. Now okay, the same DHC will now only do 250 DPS at 50 weap. power, cos you've halved it. But crank it up to 125, and that DHC now does 1750 DPS (900% of displayed), unbuffed.

Incidentally, weapons would do 0 damage from a power setting of 37 or lower. So energy drain is now absurdly OP.

And you've increased regen-rates, not changed resistances, and not changed HP for shields, so they get this with no sacrifice in resilience. And actually, since they now have more unbuffed DPS to play with, they could sacrifice maybe 10 weapon power, put it into shields and get 4x the benefit that they'd get now.

I know you've halved the effectiveness of BOff powers, which will take a big chunk out of spike damage, but, against large targets in STFs that don't die to one Alpha strike (or even 3 or 4) and require sustained damage, DPS builds are still going to be king.

Where it would have a huge effect is on PvP, but possibly too far in the other direction. Atm, shield regeneration is upped by 4% for every point above 50 (again excluding skills, buffs etc), which'd turn into 16% on your model. That, coupled with you already doubling the regen rate, means you could have six times (I think) as much shield regen at 100 power as you can have now. Now, I know shield regen only procs every 6 seconds and as such is not relevent in PvP currently, but shield power also effects your ships damage resist, which will protect you from an Alpha strike. Although I don't have stats for that, so I can't crunch the maths. Some people with more PvP experience than me might be able to provide a more educated comment.

tl;dr, multiplying the effectiveness of subsystem power levels by 4 would be ridiculous. You'd probably have to rescale them seperately from each other and rethink their effects.

But honestly, if there was ever going to be such a change to space combat as the one you've suggested, skills, NPC abilities, BOff abilities, ship stats, would all have to be fundementally rebuilt and rebalanced. That's half of the gameplay in its entireity being redesigned. Not likely to happen.

Also, I don't think the space combat is actually that bad itself. I find the biggest problem is that the NPCs are dumb, damage sponges.

Last edited by skhc; 07-08-2012 at 05:53 PM.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 52
# 7
07-08-2012, 05:46 PM
Yea it would be super fun if it took an hour to kill a shuttlecraft with a escort
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 8
07-09-2012, 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skhc View Post
You need to rethink the maths, if that's your goal, especially for PvE & STFs.

...

But honestly, if there was ever going to be such a change to space combat as the one you've suggested, skills, NPC abilities, BOff abilities, ship stats, would all have to be fundementally rebuilt and rebalanced. That's half of the gameplay in its entireity being redesigned. Not likely to happen.

Also, I don't think the space combat is actually that bad itself. I find the biggest problem is that the NPCs are dumb, damage sponges.
You make good points however you are trying to put the math into the suggestion. I mention 'by half' meaning a significant reduction in its overall performance.

Yes, I am aware the power settings modify everything by a good margin currently... but the problem is the bridge officer abilities are INSTANT heals and INSTANT damage... that is what is killing the combat in the game.

If I run my ship with just 50 aux I can still expect a damn good instant shield heal just by clicking a button. Nowhere in star trek did you ever see a 'QUICK GEORDI! CLICK THE BUTTON TO GET ALL OUR SHIELDS BACK!' type of combat. Shields regenerated and in this game that doesn't happen ..they are insta-healed nonstop during combat.

By reducing the potency of weapons and of these heals and increasing the effect power levels have will change combat into a trek-like combat situation.

Shields would be tough to bring down if the defender has very high shield settings... but in return that high shield setting also means he cannot allocate that much power to other systems.

If defender's aux is very low then his heals, already nipped in half by the suggested change, would be neigh useless.

If his engine power levels are low then the attacking ship can literally maneuver and fly circles around him and keep hitting the same shield facing.

if his weapon power is low then he really cant fight back that well with energy weapons.


Since speeds would be cut down significantly the ability for ships to run in and out of range is null (and trek-like)..even escorts. It becomes a tactical game of maneuvering and power settings control and teamwork.

Ship stats do not have to be changed at all. Only the item stats. Boff abilities only need be changed in their effect and as we know, cryptic is quite proficient at nerfing them on a regular basis so it can be done without much fuss. NPC abilities yes would need to have their stuff changed but not by much... know why? The code is already there. The game literally uses levels to assign how much hull/armor/damage the npcs do. Finding the level that matches the lowered-down-abilities/stats of player ships is all that needs to be done & set the NPC to those new level equivalents. Its not going to be a massive complete re-write of the npc database.

Once again, this type of gameplay exists in the game already. Its similar to what you experience in the first 10 levels of the game. Its just that the game for some reason just stacks bonuses on everything nonstop all the way to level 50 making the game more and more and more arcadish and less trek-like.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 9
07-09-2012, 07:52 AM
like the idea about increasing regeneration rate for shields not sure about the rest.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 49
# 10
07-09-2012, 10:27 AM
These are not good ideas man.
Combat is just fine as it is. For example Federation has taken all best technologies and used it on small ship that is designed only for 1 purpose - to be a destroyer (Defiant)

I am enjoying solo missions where that small ship destroys everything in seconds (with proper skill and CDs ofc)

That is the essence of playing a damage dealer, you are suggesting a combat to be slow, that is boring man. Numbers are fine as they are right now...powers too...

The only thing that this game is missing are MORE damn STFs which are so damn epic but we get only few...

And a dual spec... (If any staff member reads this - do something about this its about time...)
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