Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 158
# 1 Torpedoes
07-15-2012, 07:18 AM
I have some ideas on reworking torpedoes so they are more completive with energy weapons. First a little base information.

How total damage is calculated (I think).

Each torpedo has a base value. For Photon torpedoes it is the same as a standard issue. Not every torpedo has a standard issue but they do have a base value. They are listed below.

Photon - 1352.00
Transphasic - 978.20
Chroniton - 1157.75
Plasma - 1061.00
Tricobalt - 4153.50
Quantum - 1503.00

All damage bonuses are a % of the base value, which all get added together and then added to base. I think this is done so you don?t get bonuses on bonuses on more bonuses. The damage would start increasing very fast. Here is how all the bonuses work.

Rarity ? 2.5% per level (very rare is 7.5%)
Damage modifier ? 5% per modifier ([Dmg] x3 is 15%)
Skills - .5% per point (99 points is 49.5%)
Mk level ? 8.14% form base to Mk I and 10.2% every Mk after (Mk X is 100%)
Player Level ? really small amount per level (level 50 is 1.94%)
Consoles ? add what they say they add (+30 is 30%)

How to measure the effectiveness of torpedoes. I don?t know if this is the best way but it can be used to compare rate of fire, firing arc, and damage. You take the rate of fire and find how many shots in one minute you can get. Then find the total damage in one minute. Take that and dived by 60 you get and average dps. Now take you firing arc dived by 180(180 for front and 180 for back) and times that by your average dps.

So if you have 7000 damage, you have 8 torpedoes a minute, and a firing arc of 90 you get

(7000*8)/60=average dps and 90/180=arc%

933*.5 = 466 effectiveness rating

Note that this doesn?t factor in that some ship and stay in the firing arc no matter what.

Now let?s rate the current torpedoes. For the bonus damage calculations I will be using a MK XII Rare launcher, with max skill points in Starship Weapons Training, max skill points in Starship Projectile Weapons, and Level 50 Player(about 225% bonus to base damage).

Info will be (damage per torpedo/average dps/effectiveness rating)

Tricobalt ? 13552/226/113
Quantum ? 4904/490/254
Photon ? 4411/588/294
Chroniton ? 3777/315/157
Plasma ? 3462/346/173
Transphasic ? 3192/266/133

Now for my idea.
First, change the base damage. I used Photons as the ?base? base @1350 then change the rest by 10% keeping the same order of damage.

Current/New

Tricobalt ? 4153/1620
Quantum ? 1503/1485
Photon ? 1352/1350
Chroniton ? 1158/1227
Plasma ? 1061/1125
Transphasic ? 978/1038

Second, change the firing arcs again Photons as the base and going in steps of 30 degrees.

Current/New

Tricobalt ? 90/30
Quantum ? 90/60
Photon ? 90/90
Chroniton ? 90/120
Plasma ? 90/150
Transphasic ? 90/180

Third, change the fire rate of all torpedoes from what they are to 4 seconds per torpedo. However this is the base value. The rate will change based on weapon power at 50 you have 4 seconds, 25 you will have 8 seconds, and 100 you will have 2 seconds(max rate).

Forth, change the way torpedoes fire. Right now you can only fire 1 at a time. I say change it so you can fire all at the same time.

So now let?s rerate our torpedoes at power rating of 50.

Info will be (damage per torpedo/average dps/effectiveness rating)

Tricobalt ? 5286/1321/220
Quantum ? 4845/1211/404
Photon ? 4405/1101/551
Chroniton ? 4004/1001/667
Plasma ? 3671/918/765
Transphasic ? 3388/847/847

Lastly, new procs.

Tricobalt ? 2.5% chance to have super critical hit 100% to base damage
Quantum ? +20% chance to critical hit, +20% to critical damage
Photon ? +30% accuracy
Chroniton ? 50% chance to bypass shields, 50% chance to do 0 damage (note could do both at the same time bypass shields and do no damage.)
Plasma ? 10% of damage applied to each shield face
Transphasic ? 40% extra bleed through, 5% chance to miss.

The average dps for all torpedoes goes up by 640% at 100 power, 320% at 50 power, and 150% at 25 power.

Or forget all that and up the firing arc to 180 on all torpedoes.

what does everyone else think?
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,290
# 2
07-15-2012, 08:03 AM
First, you have to remember that the torpedo damage mechanism is kinetic energy. the Quantum has a higher kinetic damage and slower fire rate to accommodate that. in addition the Plasma transphasic and Chroniton torps have "powers" if you will, the plasma has the HYT plasma energy, Transphasics better shield penetration and the Chronitons are suppose to slow you down.

are the special powers broken? IMHO yes, but that is a whole different thread. now that said, It's Canon that torpedos are a finite resource. I would say bump damage up, but make torps a finite resource, based on hull size. the same thoughts could be applied to cannons, since in DS9, it was clear they had to replace a component of the Defiant's cannons after every mission
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 92
# 3
07-17-2012, 09:35 AM
Although I applaud your efforts to figure that out and post it, I have to disagree with both your math and conclusions.

First off - power levels do not affect torpedo damage.
Percentages aren't added, they're multiplied (that way multiple bonuses become less effective with each additional bonus).

To be quite honest, although I think they could be tweaked just a bit, I generally like the way they've handled torpedos.

Quantum torpedos give the greatest bang for the reload time. The really high damaging torpedos, can be destroyed en-route to target to compensate for their insane damage. Others have special abilities (some low damaging ones that don't scale have a greater shield penetration, or radiation damage bonus, etc.).

All in all, I think they're pretty good. Just have to remember that they aren't designed to attack shields. Shields greatly reduce their effectiveness (as they should being kinetic damage). Don't fire torpedos at a fully charged shield arc, use your energy weapons to weaken or take down the shields, then fire the torpedos (if using slow moving targetable torpedos fire them really close in).

Some people think torpedos are weak, only because they want to fly torpedo boats armed only with torpedos. I would argue that although "cool looking", that's a really dumb idea. Placing all of one's eggs in one basket is a recipe for failure. That kind of specialization rarely works, nor should it.

As for placing a limit on the number of torpedos carried, that's a "good on paper, not great in game" type of thing. Some fights in-game (especially on higher difficulties) would easily exhaust the entire compliment of torpedos, penalizing those who take them, while those with energy weapons would have unlimited ammo (unless you're also advocating that their phaser coils burn out after x number of shots as well).

Seriously, can you imagine an Elite STF when everyone runs out of ammo? Some of them are tough enough as is without that headache.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 85
# 4
07-17-2012, 01:55 PM
Quote:
Some people think torpedos are weak, only because they want to fly torpedo boats armed only with torpedos. I would argue that although "cool looking", that's a really dumb idea. Placing all of one's eggs in one basket is a recipe for failure. That kind of specialization rarely works, nor should it.
Tell that to every beam boat cruiser and cannon boat Escort. Both are viable builds.

Thats my biggest complaint with torps ATM.

They don't REMOTLY compare to their energy weapon bretheran. They're ok. But unless your runnign a really horribad wepaons power they're not mch cop. Science gets plenty of use out of them for that reason. And crusier often have spare weapons slots, but they're strictlly a secondery weapons thats often woefully under-utulised. And escorts really have no justificationn for bringing them atm.


Really wehat i'd like to see:

1. Bring all Torp banks DPS into line with Mk and Modifider equivelent Dual Beams

2. Come up with some new nice modifiers for Photons and Quantums, (they're going to be left behind by the rest otherwise, and doing so might help make crew more useful to boot).

3. Drop the Global Cooldown.

4. Make Torp HY and Torp Spread work like BFAW/CSV/CRF (i.e. every shot for X number of seconds)

The only reason they fire in this steady fashion they do now, (which bassiclly means even against an opponent at minimial shelds you waste most of each hit on a bare sliver of sheilds), is becuase they have such vastly higher individual DPS numbers. Bring tose down to Dual Beam levels and you can driop tha and they suddenlyl become a lot more dangerous. An opponnent on a bare sliver of sheilds can't hide away confident that the bare sliver will negate most of the DPS allmost irrespective of how many torps are being fired.

You still need some way of taking shelds out for maximum effect, but your no longer left with an overall subpar weapon setup choice.

Last edited by carl104; 07-17-2012 at 01:58 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,540
# 5
07-17-2012, 08:22 PM
I run a Torpedo boat with a Sci ship, Tractors (DOFF enhanced), Tachyon Beams and Max Aux solve the Shield problems. I admit to 3 Turrets and a Dual Beam bank, but the bulk of my damage is Torpedo due to next to nothing in weapons power.
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