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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 311
06-12-2012, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Looks like somebody missed the bottom of page 12.
sorry for that

yeah, you lose your support role, thats true. self tanking is still possible.
For a support cruiser, the galaxy x wouldn't be my first choice anyway.

out of 7 engi powers, you can use 1 for improved movement in my opinion. That doesn't hurt your tank ability in any way + it is a kind of tank ability considering the increased speed + kinetic resi.

even with low AUX setting, the turnrate and speed buff doesn't get changed only the resi does. so you can still run low aux and high weapon power.


Quote:
I went on to Tribble hoping the new Tier 5 Akira was there earlier, it wasn't, but I did hop in a Galaxy X, and I did try the aux2ID thing on the Gal X. In all honesty, the Gal X is so much more cumbersome than the other ships I've tried it on that I wouldn't bother. Even running high aux was merely "sufficient" for PVE. And to run that kind of aux without biting into more important areas you need to run emergency to aux twice. Now using that instead of emergency to weapons 1 twice as seems common on this ship, could be viable. But then with aux 2ID twice as well, you've got four of your seven engineering powers dedicated to getting you moving worth a damn, but you're still only going to be putting out tactical cruiser damage, which whilst impressive on the Alpha, isn't especially brilliant compared to an escort. The kicker though, is that you'll have also lost a great deal of your ability to support a team. At best you'll be able to self-tank with two copies of EPTS3, and maybe extend3 for buddy help, but I think the losses incurred by trying to make it what it isn't far outweigh the benefits.
couldn't really get this straight here. why were you using emergency power to aux twice? to me thats not even common if you do heavy support.
it seems to me you wanted to take your support cruiser premise and transfer it to the galaxy X, but then use beam arrays and forget turnrate if you wanna be supporter/tank.
if you want to tank, you are wasting your slots anyway with extend shields, since nobody else should get aggro (atleast in pve)
and since you can put dual cannons on it (even if its suicide in pvp) you can out dps any "tactical oddy" (in my opinion the sci oddy deals more dmg, through sensor analasys) and still be a viable tank in PVE.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 312
06-13-2012, 01:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebeneezergoode
Looks like somebody missed the bottom of page 12.

I went on to Tribble hoping the new Tier 5 Akira was there earlier, it wasn't, but I did hop in a Galaxy X, and I did try the aux2ID thing on the Gal X. In all honesty, the Gal X is so much more cumbersome than the other ships I've tried it on that I wouldn't bother. Even running high aux was merely "sufficient" for PVE. And to run that kind of aux without biting into more important areas you need to run emergency to aux twice. Now using that instead of emergency to weapons 1 twice as seems common on this ship, could be viable. But then with aux 2ID twice as well, you've got four of your seven engineering powers dedicated to getting you moving worth a damn, but you're still only going to be putting out tactical cruiser damage, which whilst impressive on the Alpha, isn't especially brilliant compared to an escort. The kicker though, is that you'll have also lost a great deal of your ability to support a team. At best you'll be able to self-tank with two copies of EPTS3, and maybe extend3 for buddy help, but I think the losses incurred by trying to make it what it isn't far outweigh the benefits.

Edit: One thing worth pointing out is that if you used TSS and HE in the science station, and had SiF generators too, Hazards would be pushing out some nice numbers by itself, as would TSS with the right science consoles.
I'm curious as to who runs EPtW twice? I'd chain EPtS personally (and take a higher EPtW rank for the burst if you're going with it) since generally you're going to max out weapons power anyway. Sacrificing survivability in an attempt to chain the EPtW bonus doesn't sound beneficial to me, at least not in a ship that's as wide as a barn door and drives like molasses.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 313
06-13-2012, 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless
I'm curious as to who runs EPtW twice? I'd chain EPtS personally (and take a higher EPtW rank for the burst if you're going with it) since generally you're going to max out weapons power anyway. Sacrificing survivability in an attempt to chain the EPtW bonus doesn't sound beneficial to me, at least not in a ship that's as wide as a barn door and drives like molasses.
yeah so do i.

and i didn't understand what he meant with
Quote:
Even running high aux was merely "sufficient" for PVE. And to run that kind of aux without biting into more important areas you need to run emergency to aux twice. Now using that instead of emergency to weapons 1 twice as seems common on this ship, could be viable. But then with aux 2ID twice as well, you've got four of your seven engineering powers dedicated to getting you moving worth a damn, but you're still only going to be putting out tactical cruiser damage, which whilst impressive on the Alpha, isn't especially brilliant compared to an escort
especially.
reading through this part, made me think he is running high aux, low weapon...but adds 2 EPtAUX for, i'm not sure what, and then the tactical cruiser dmg output, comparing to an escort?
i couldn't make much sense of it, because if he runs his cruiser as a supporter, he shouldn't bother with higher turnrate anyway.
and why did he even think running aux 2ID twice was necessary...and why boost aux for it, if you are only interested in the turnrate increase?
his setup really didn't make any sense to me...maybe for a support cruiser, but then the dreadnought is not his nr 1 choice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 314
06-13-2012, 06:03 AM
Yeah it's not my most coherent post, blame wine. Basicly, the whole point of the exercise was to see if the G-X could be made agile enough to use DHC. Aux2ID being the primary source of this additional agility.

I found that running the regular power (max weapons, rest in engines, shields relying on epts) levels meant AUX2ID was providing a moderate boost to turn rate, but not enough to be useful when engaging player piloted ships. Now, a lot of tac cruisers will chain both EPTW and EPTS to keep perma-hardened shields and mitigate the power drain of 8 beams. Since DHC/turrets is less power greedy (non-heavy cannons are another story however), and since I needed more aux, I ditched EPTW for EPTA. This meant I could increase aux without having to trim power from weapons or engines, either of which would've harmed DPS or turn rate, which are both integral in having a G-X use DHC effectively.

Now, AUX2ID does improve the turn boost based on your aux power, I made sure to check this before I bothered experimenting with it. With max aux, it still wasn't that impressive a turn rate and still not enough to bother an escort. And you won't be getting max aux with EPTA1, just a nice boost. When I used the aux2ID thing on the Vor'cha, it already turned reasonably well, so Aux2ID didn't need to be cranked that high to be worth while. My conclusions from the tests with the G-X were that trying to get it to turn worth a damn was only partially successful, and led to compromising the build too heavily in other areas.

So, a cruiser needs to already be "kind of escorty" to be made to move like one. And that's a pre-requisite of effective prolonged DHC use in PVP. The G-X AUX2ID experiment was a flop.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 315
06-13-2012, 06:09 AM
I know it's been said before, but the Phaser Lance doesn't seem all that great either. Certainly doesn't do the 'devestating damage' that the wiki claims it can do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 316
06-13-2012, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Now, AUX2ID does improve the turn boost based on your aux power, I made sure to check this before I bothered experimenting with it. With max aux, it still wasn't that impressive a turn rate and still not enough to bother an escort. And you won't be getting max aux with EPTA1, just a nice boost. When I used the aux2ID thing on the Vor'cha, it already turned reasonably well, so Aux2ID didn't need to be cranked that high to be worth while. My conclusions from the tests with the G-X were that trying to get it to turn worth a damn was only partially successful, and led to compromising the build too heavily in other areas.

So, a cruiser needs to already be "kind of escorty" to be made to move like one. And that's a pre-requisite of effective prolonged DHC use in PVP. The G-X AUX2ID experiment was a flop.
ahh yes, i understand now. You are right, for pvp it's insane anyway. DHC on the galaxy X, even with the little turnrate increase it's still much too slow for PVP.
On the other hand, for PVE (mainly stf's) it is a nice boost of turnrate from 9 to 13.4, atleast in my free Oddy.
My conclusion: For PVP not a good idea, for all the points mentioned, For PVE, maybe if you use DBB or DC(which i wouldn't recoment anyway).

being able to move it like an escort wasn't what i aimed at anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 317
06-14-2012, 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raudl View Post
ahh yes, i understand now. You are right, for pvp it's insane anyway. DHC on the galaxy X, even with the little turnrate increase it's still much too slow for PVP.
On the other hand, for PVE (mainly stf's) it is a nice boost of turnrate from 9 to 13.4, atleast in my free Oddy.
My conclusion: For PVP not a good idea, for all the points mentioned, For PVE, maybe if you use DBB or DC(which i wouldn't recoment anyway).

being able to move it like an escort wasn't what i aimed at anyway.
Now, I have used one DHC paired with two Singles and a BA/ DBB/ Torp in the front and have had decent success with it. I just don't depend on the DHC doing much over time, I just use it for opportunity fire.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1
# 318
06-20-2012, 03:54 PM
the lance is best used at the BEGINNG of Battle. Use the Cloaking device to get close( about 5-8 Klm) decloak then fire
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 216
# 319
06-23-2012, 07:06 PM
The Galaxy X will never be what it should be until the system is completely revamped and Cruisers are put where they are in the shows and movies. Front line main damage dealers and takers.

Cruiser in ST are kind of a big deal, lol.
As in they are the main ship of choice in almost every situation.

They are the go to ships in the fleet due to the tech advances making most other roles obsolete by being able to roll most of their function without loss of viability into a larger more powerful vessel.

But in STO, cruisers are... weird.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 818
# 320
07-22-2012, 08:50 AM
I like my dreddy. However it is wierd. It does need a LT commander tac slot. Maybe we'll get our wish when the saucer sep finally gets here...yeah right.
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