Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 716
# 31
07-16-2012, 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psiameese View Post

Space stations, like K-7 and DS9, shouldn't even be represented in sector space at all. Only the star systems in which they are located. With the Map function and pop-ups offering us information and buttons to visit the stations therein. And you're right about K7 being huge. It was never even as large as DS9. It's should be scaled against the TOS Constitution to get it right. Because that is the only true reference we have for it. Even if our newer, larger starships are, well, really big when next to K7, that is how it's supposed to be.

Some starbases may be an exception because they needn't be in a star system at all. So may well stand alone in sector space.

Indeed, if we're going to get all technical about scale with only being able to see the stars in sector space with starbases being too small to see, we also shouldn't even see our own ships in sector space*. Not to mention that travel times between star systems, in order to get the "most accurate immersiveness" due to "correct scale" would also have to be expanded by a factor of days and weeks, which would not make for a very fun game at all.


*actually, this kind of brings me around to another point, that maybe we shouldn't even have a sector space, and instead travel between star systems within our ship interiors, because we wouldn't be seeing all these other ships traveling around as anything other than streaks of light or blips on some sort of sensor display.

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Last edited by direphoenix; 07-16-2012 at 08:05 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 32
07-16-2012, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalolorn View Post
No, really... Somebody needs to watch DS9 before making complaints. It's perfectly fine the way it is.
No, really... YOU need to watch DS9 before making complaints, about MY complaints. DS9 happens to be my favorite of the 5 live-action shows, and i've seen the whole show several times over. I'd like to think I know what i'm talking about in regards to anything DS9.

Last edited by meurik; 07-16-2012 at 09:00 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 412
# 33 Other Objects
07-16-2012, 11:01 AM
I do not wanna re-open the DS9-is-too-large-files here, but certain objects in STO (other than planets) just have ridiculous sizes for absolutely NO reason:

*Type-8 Shuttles on ground maps: A medium-sized character stands as high as the shuttle. In maps like Vulcan (Diplomatic Orders) or the shuttle bay-simulation on Bajor this just looks ridiculous.
**Size comparison with a type-6 shuttle (almost the same size):
***http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...erdecks162.jpg
***http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...Caption84e.jpg

*The crashed Bird-of-Prey in "Alpha": My Klingon character is almost as large as the entire front section of the ship! Awesome mission, but this was the ulimate immersion-killer :-/

Wrt these examples, I really do not see any reason for their apparently wrong sizes.

Last edited by kagasensei; 07-16-2012 at 11:06 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,149
# 34
07-16-2012, 11:16 AM
What REALLY annoys me is that the star texture outside the windows in the Fleet Starbase is so grainy and low res. It was just released, and it doesn't look that good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salmonsashimi View Post
Interiors - I know they've been blown way up because of the camera system, but I seriously think the camera should be adjusted and the interiors correctly scaled.
You know what the scale is? The TOS Constitution set had corridors 12 feet wide, not sure about TNG or DS9. I'm wondering at how it's scaled here. I know the bridges certainly seem too large, but the corridors don't seem that bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psiameese View Post
Space stations, like K-7 and DS9, shouldn't even be represented in sector space at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by direphoenix View Post
*actually, this kind of brings me around to another point, that maybe we shouldn't even have a sector space, and instead travel between star systems within our ship interiors, because we wouldn't be seeing all these other ships traveling around as anything other than streaks of light or blips on some sort of sensor display.
I always thought Sector Space wasn't "real", but the viewscreen showing us an abstraction and popping up items of interest, scaling them so they're visible. The "astrometrics display" help reinforce that perspective.

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
# 35
07-16-2012, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stohanson View Post
It appears that the Cryptic engine is very limited as to what you can do with it. I've read a lot of DEV posts saying you can't do this or that because of the Engine, where other MMO's i've played are able to do all the things that Cryptic Dev's say they can't do. Maybe it's time to look at designing a new one?
Cryptic's engine isn't limited. It can potentially do anything and everything possible with the realms of current video and audio technology and techniques. Notice I said [b]potentially[/l]. The engine's current capability (or a naysayering saying limits) are present because that's the way the engine was designed and implemented. That's the reason why. Why we can't be on our bridge and be flying through sector space with our ship avatar. The engine wasn't designed for that. It's entirely possible for those capability to be added into the game with time and programmer time. Anything technologically possible can be added to the engine.

You need to look at the history of Cryptic's engine. Their initial engine was created for City of Heroes. It's a good decent engine and NcSoft has been slowing adding to it since Cryptic and City of Heroes went their separate ways.

Cryptic wanted to add a lot of new features but had neither the time nor manpower to implement them. When Cryptic for the contact for Mavel Comic MMORPG, that was their change to implement all the things they for their engine, but also their own database engine to make possible a truely MMORPG on one shard. (Current Relational Database Management Systems are a bottleneck for MMORPG shards with large numbers of players). Cryptic goals for their new engine was for a super hero MMORPG, but more in general for a human avatar type MMORPG. That's the state of the engine when STO development was started.

The other advantage of that Cryptic owns their own engine. They don't need to license it from anyone else. And with many development teams working on expanding the game base engine, every other team benefits from the work.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 990
# 36
07-17-2012, 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
Yes, Alpha was trickery, similar to putting it into the backdrop. In reality, that planet can appear bigger because only half of it is made (the half facing you) and there is no collision.


All Engines have limitations. Our engine is actually very good overall, and we hear that everytime we hire someone from another company. Yes, there are limitations, but we are always adding to it, and improving on things. We will not be tossing it out and using something else.

Many of the limitations we work with, are due to the types of games we make. MMOs have special limitations over most single player games. Turns out, having to render 100's of characters at once, and sync data between all of them is a bit of a hindrance.
That's pretty much what they do in X3. The planets are huge. You can be looking at one directly in front of you (still a fair distance away), then look up and realize that it is also directly above you; they are just that big. However, if you were to fly around to the far side of one, you would find that it wasn't all there.

They get around the collisions thing by making it dangerous to enter the 'atmosphere'; basically, if you get too close to a planet the screen starts shaking and everything goes white. Presumably, if the player kept going they'd die; but it's alarming enough to make me want to turn around, so I've never found out.

Even with these though, X3 is a massive resource hog; and the planets play a large part in that.
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I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 23
# 37
07-22-2012, 11:25 PM
I like how in the KDF episode, "Alphas" there was a blue gas giant in the background. It was larger than the screen could actually fit. I think that's how the planet should be scaled like,
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Career Officer
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Posts: 875
# 38
07-23-2012, 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjeff View Post
I always thought Sector Space wasn't "real", but the viewscreen showing us an abstraction and popping up items of interest, scaling them so they're visible. The "astrometrics display" help reinforce that perspective.
Turn on Astrometric View. Which is what is what you would see on bridge viewscreens or an astrometric lab aboard our starship. Ala Voyager, we get simulated mapping grids and generic shipping lanes displayed. The space station models, such as DS9 and K7 would make sense to appear that way. But once we turn off Astrometric View, it should be as if you are actually in outer space. So the DS9 and K7 models should be interpreted as part of their respective star systems. At least, I think that is how it should be.

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