Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,041
# 21
07-23-2012, 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
We need to stop the "market massacre" thats happening now

There are WAY too many people buying stuff and reposting it immediately at a 50% mark up

this is not commerce its theft
Agreed, it's the single biggest flaw in the alleged "economy" in STO.
HAIL HYDRA!

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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,041
# 22
07-23-2012, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusty8mac View Post
No, it is simple supply and demand.
No it isn't. "farmers" don't supply anything, and they don't consume anything. All they do is force actual consumers to pay higher prices.
HAIL HYDRA!

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I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 163
# 23
07-23-2012, 02:53 PM
I agree with the buy low sell hi is all part of the game.

Friday I made a killing selling Tholian reward packs, you know the green ones that take you ilke 2 minutes to get when you complete the mission. For some reason someone(S) Friday went crazy for them. Anytime one was under priced, I snatched that up to and re sold it at the current market price. I think I cleared about 2-3 mill just on those, and here they had just been sitting in my bank collecting dust.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 24
07-23-2012, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
All they do is force actual consumers to pay higher prices.
And people pay.IF people would stop paying prices would have to drop .
Also dont tell us that we are not allowed to buy cheap items and sell them later if we dont need them
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 253
# 25
07-23-2012, 03:29 PM
When the Master Keys dropped to 700k, I bought ten of them. We all knew that more lockboxes were coming, so there would be a higher demand for keys when the new lockboxes were released. I sold those same keys for 1.8 million each, giving me an 11 million EC profit.

That's not stealing, it's the same as buying and selling stocks.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,030
# 26
07-23-2012, 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
No it isn't. "farmers" don't supply anything, and they don't consume anything. All they do is force actual consumers to pay higher prices.
They supply EC to sellers. Trade is always a two way street. There is nothing forceful or predatory about it. If you don't like it, buy the item first. Adjusting prices back to fair market value, and benefiting from the EC is NO DIFFERENT than benefiting from the raw product at an under-market value.

If I buy a product for 25,000ec, and it has a market value of 40,000ec, and I resell that product at it's market value. I've earned 15,000ec of value. If you buy a product for 25,000ec, and it has a market value of 40,000ec, and you just use the product because you wanted it- Guess What? You've still earned 15,000ec of value, since you don't need to spend the extra 15,000ec to get it! In both cases, the buyer is 'taking advantage' of the seller's ignorance. It doesn't matter what you want to do with the product.

You're basically proposing that value be restricted only to use, and not an opportunity to resell, and that's just silly. You're denying someone else dibs on a deal, even though they may have found it first and fair, because you want less competition on the exchange. It's bad for sellers, and its unfair to those who actually put in their effort in trading.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,016
# 27
07-23-2012, 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
We need to stop the "market massacre" thats happening now

There are WAY too many people buying stuff and reposting it immediately at a 50% mark up

this is not commerce its theft
Theft? You've got to be kidding, LOL. Someone offers to sell an item on the exchange at a certain price. I buy it and I'm a thief? C'mon, really? Oh, so if I actually USE it, then I'm not a thief. But if I sell it for a higher price, then I am? Sorry. The definition of thievery does not depend on what I do with the item that I fairly purchased at a price that was agreed to by both parties involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
No it isn't. "farmers" don't supply anything, and they don't consume anything. All they do is force actual consumers to pay higher prices.
"Gold Farmers" usually refers to people who offer to sell things for REAL money. I'm not talking about selling things that were bought from the Z-store. It usually refers to people selling stuff on third party websites, Ebay, craigslist, etc. The people here who are buying and re-posting are not 'gold farmers'. There is no REAL money exchange in any of these transactions.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,231
# 28
07-23-2012, 04:03 PM
Why anyone would buy EC is beyond me. If you really want a quick start, buy $50 for of Z points, use the D-exchange to convert into a million+ Dilithium, and buy all gear you need. Dilithium grind over. Then just sell all your drops and save EC for those special items.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 999
# 29
07-23-2012, 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
We need to stop the "market massacre" thats happening now

There are WAY too many people buying stuff and reposting it immediately at a 50% mark up

this is not commerce its theft
I agree that the "market massacre" needs to stop, but the logic behind this is flawed.

As the saying goes, "theft" tends to have that connotation of a "forceful" removal of value. If I'm boneheaded enough to post a 500k item at 200k because I forgot to research the item properly, then I'm not being robbed, I'm being stupid. If I'm convinced/cajoled/"forced" to sell a 500k item on the exchange at 200k, so the traders can scarf it and reprice it, that's theft.

Now, at the same time, I'm gonna take a moment to point out the fact that the exchange is a monopoly. Literal in the Dilith - Zen point trade, as that's the only place to make any kind of dilithium or zen point trade, and virtual for everything else, as the WTT/WTB/WTS posts are quickly "muted" in zone chat by the refrain "go to exchange", "take deals to exchange or else, that is our trade channel", report...

With this monopoly, I question exactly how the community is setting the prices if joe-bob the trader can log in, buy up all of item X below price Y, and re-sell them at or above price Y. If he's on frequently, am I ever (outside of extreme luck) ever gonna see item X cheaper than price Y? That's not a community price, that's "trader joe-bob's price". And, with the exchange-monopoly, anyone who wants item X has to either pay joe-bob's price (joe-bob's validation that the item is at it's "proper" value) or go without...
Well, with the upgrade announcement leaving NX and Connie fans in the dust again, can we restart / revisit the T5 Connie and NX threads - since they will no longer be "truly" endgame ships... (after we get the T5 versions, it'll be time to see them added to the T5U upgrade charts too...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,806
# 30
07-23-2012, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Theft "the aquisition of anothers property by stealth or cunning"
By that definition, gthe major gtraders of most Wall Street financial corporations should be in jail already. I hate to say it, but open market manipulation isn't illegal unless hyou have some actual inside non-public knowledge you make use of in executinng your trade.

Buying low and reposting to sell high isn't an exploit or illlegal per se, as long as some sucker will pay your price. welcome to 'free market' economics. Bottom line is: Until the majority of people using tghe mafrket refuse to buy something above a certain price level - this type of thing will continue.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
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