Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 160
# 21
07-24-2012, 08:24 AM
The phased polarons are overrated. Using beams for procs is like using a .50 cal pistol to hold off a charging army.

In practice I can't say phased tetryons are any good either. Even with 4 dual cannons and 4 turrets and rapid fire/volley the proc isn't frequent enough relative to the (lower) dps to make the concept viable. In theory it sounds great though.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 22
07-24-2012, 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by echodarksided View Post
The phased polarons are overrated. Using beams for procs is like using a .50 cal pistol to hold off a charging army.

In practice I can't say phased tetryons are any good either. Even with 4 dual cannons and 4 turrets and rapid fire/volley the proc isn't frequent enough relative to the (lower) dps to make the concept viable. In theory it sounds great though.
You don't fly cruisers do you? Beams are often the only way to go for cruisers with slow turn rates and only a lieutenant tac slot. You could go turrets but they're even less dps. Doubling the chance on procing something is worth looking into. More so if you're specced into energy weapon specialization.

And in cruisers you can deal with an army that gets to you, kinda the point of a cruiser.


Not proc enough? See dknight0001's post on page 2? 3 phased tetryons = 90% proc chance per volley. Add in 3-4 DHCs and you're looking at over 100% proc chance each volley. Definitely worth it.
Lower DPS? Versus MKXII, for the beams it's all of 8dps, the DBB's it's 10dps. For 6 beams that 48dps lost for 4 times the proc chance.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 23
07-24-2012, 08:05 PM
Eradicator84,

As a member of Jupiter force, i assure you we do the MATH and thoroughly test our opinions. In the case of beams for phased tetryon or polarized tetryons you might notice that the beams do 20dps less than MK XI rare tetryon, and as such the tetryon proc to shields is simply compensating for the overall loss of DPS by choosing the double proc weapons.

So based on the math, for 8 beams you are basically trading 160 DPS for -223.5 for a shield proc, and if you proc polaron or phaser, you actually lose that DPS, but if you go with something like Borg MK XII Tetryon you will hit for considerably more total DPS + proc making the dual proc weapons one of deminishing returns from the first volley.

Now some might say the phaser or polaron proc is worth it, but that is a choice, and 60 seconds of continuous fire will be a difference in thousands of DPS, a loss gap very unlikely to be compensated by the phaser or polaron proc.

And yes, i fly cruisers, my polarized tetryon testing is done on the Excelsior class, and my phased tetryon testing was done on my mirror universe battlecruiser using 4 DCs and 4 turrets - which is max proc rate and still falls short of MK XII Borg Tetryon in DPS over time.

But to each their own. Cryptic folks are very smart, they are selling a gimic with dual procs at MK XI Rare, not an advantage over existing options. In PvE gimics make very little impact to gameplay so no one cares, and in PvP gimics can sometimes be the reason you win, so people will use them. That doesn't make the math wrong though.

Darksided
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# 24
07-25-2012, 02:35 AM
Hi darksided,

I was working off stowiki's Phased Polaron beam and Polaron beams or Polarized Tetryon and Tetryon pages for damage stats, can't find phased tetryon on there yet.

In all cases MKXI base dps for a beam array is shown as 168dps for the single energy type beam and the dual energy type beam. Is this incorrect?
If you're talking about after all your captain skills/powers apply, well that specific to your captain.
I'm just talking base dps numbers.

I'm not sure if your dislike is with the new dual energy/proc type weapons or the fact that some only come in MKXI rare versions.

Of course the MkXI rare's do less DPS then purple MKXII gear, less base DPS and one less modifier (Acc/Dmg/Crit). That's why we're asking for MKXII purple variants. So if you dislike them specifically due do being only MKXI and rare, I agree, I even said we need purple MKXII ones on page 2.

If you dislike the idea of dual energy types because you're sacrificing DPS. Let me put this to you.
For tankers and support craft I'd argue DPS isn't everything. They might want to focus on disables, shield stripping or power drains to soften enemies up for the tac heavy ships (like yourself).

I'm a tanker and run polarons (more recently phased polarons) on my KDF toon as I run a lot of energy drain stuff and so phased polarons synergize with that well (flow caps increase both proc types). My thinking isn't to have max dps (whilst nice to think about/have, that's for escorts and tac heavy ships) my role as a tank cruiser is to draw fire and take it. Running polarons to me seems like a good choice as it lowers the enemies power levels making them less effective against me, thus I can tank them longer or tank more of them thus fulfilling my role as tank.

I could see phased tetryons as a good choice for sci players skilled into disable type skills (viral matrix and the like) and shield drains.

I agree there needs to be MKXII variants of these dual energy type wepons to get the dps on par with other types but I don't think they're inferior or gimmicky when used correctly. Just better suited to those specialised in particular roles.
Like raw dps, plasma-disruptor hybrid for you might be best. Debuff and DoT procs. Imagine those as MKXII purples!

As Rare MkXI gear they're great. Compared to purple MKXII gear of course they're inferior. Less DPS and one less modifier ( CritH/dmg/CritD/Acc). If there were MKXII purple options available I doubt there'd be an issue.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 160
# 25
07-25-2012, 06:35 AM
I went back and looked. The phased tetryon is 20 dps lower than regular MK XI tetryon Rare. I'll take screenshots tonight. That 20 DPS across 7-8 weapons adds up quick.

Also, you can obtain polarized tetryon via the 2800 episodes for Klingons. I was unaware of this until last night, but apparently one of the missions rewards polarized tetryon cannons MK XI Rare.

Also, in calculations be careful of using weapons with DMG modifiers unless it is part of a store/consistently obtainable item. DMG modifier is inconsistent in lockbox items for phased tetryon, and using DMG weapons DPS can distort math.

Still, a good discussion! Lots of interesting discussion topics in this thread. The interest in the topic suggests a detailed segment on STOKed Radio is worth the time.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 26
07-25-2012, 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by echodarksided View Post
I went back and looked. The phased tetryon is 20 dps lower than regular MK XI tetryon Rare. I'll take screenshots tonight.
I suggest you go back and look again. The same Mk, with identical modifiers, has the same DPS: http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...sedtetryon.jpg
Lt. Commander
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# 27
07-25-2012, 10:35 AM
Now that is interesting. I did dual beams for comparison, but checked turrets as well as observed the pattern. Will dig deeper, thanks!
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# 28
07-25-2012, 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eradicator84 View Post
You don't fly cruisers do you? Beams are often the only way to go for cruisers with slow turn rates and only a lieutenant tac slot. You could go turrets but they're even less dps. Doubling the chance on procing something is worth looking into. More so if you're specced into energy weapon specialization.

And in cruisers you can deal with an army that gets to you, kinda the point of a cruiser.


Not proc enough? See dknight0001's post on page 2? 3 phased tetryons = 90% proc chance per volley. Add in 3-4 DHCs and you're looking at over 100% proc chance each volley. Definitely worth it.
Lower DPS? Versus MKXII, for the beams it's all of 8dps, the DBB's it's 10dps. For 6 beams that 48dps lost for 4 times the proc chance.
They said a 90% proc chance for turrets well like I thought and was confirmed after my last post there are no polarized tetryon turrets in game. Only polarized tetryon weapons you can get are Beams and DBBs.
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Posts: 815
# 29
07-25-2012, 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by echodarksided View Post
Now that is interesting. I did dual beams for comparison, but checked turrets as well as observed the pattern. Will dig deeper, thanks!
Yeah I'm 99.9% sure that the same mark weapons have the same base damage. Obviously if there's a DMG modifier in there it'll have more but otherwise they'll be the same. I'm thinking you're maybe comparing MkXI rare tetryons with MkXII purple phased tets? Or your phased tets have the DMG modifier in there.

I had a look last night between a Polaron borg MKXII beam array dps and the MKXI rare phased polarons. Once equipped on my ship and in a space combat zone the tooltip difference in DPS per array was about 10dps. (0.1 or so plus or minus, I can't remember which way), so really, for me anyway, the DPS loss isn't a huge amount (60dps for 6 beams) vs gaining 15% chance of stripping some shield.



On a side note, is there a dedicated STOKed radio website yet? All I can find is the youtube site and no audio downloadable versions.

I know Mav is still gearing up, but just wondering.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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# 30
07-26-2012, 02:50 AM
I was completely wrong about their being turrets, I thought there was more than beams.

Now I believe a Beam array fires 3 times a volley? So the Proc comparison is still accurate.

6 Beams at 10% is 18 chances at a 10% proc, or a 180% proc chance.
6 Beams at 2.5% is 18 chances at a 2.5% proc, or a 45% proc chance.

Now if you have Flow Capacitors that drain could be huge and across all shield facings. Reducing their total shields.
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