Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 51
07-26-2012, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladedancer269 View Post
I know that is not the appropriate answer to that statement, but i get really sick and tired of hearing people say they are going to go play another game and then continue to post there discontent about the game and say they are going to play another game.
Forgive me for not responding to this in my first post to you but have you considered that it is possible the reason we come back and voice our opinions is because despite getting fed up there is something about the game we really enjoy and are passionate about?

Is it not possible that we see what could be, or see what is awesome and get frustrated that little is done to improve it? What is the crime in checking in with the hope that something may have changed.

What kind of crime is it to ask for what we think would be cool or fun just like you PvEers do?

What would be great is to be able to voice our concerns, opinions and hopes without having the moniker, "whiner," levied against us.

Oh and before I leave you with that last thought have you considered that complaining about us complaining is the same as whining about us whining?

PvEers have concerns just as PvPers do, it seems to me PvErs whine, percentage wise you know, the same that PvPers do. It's just that PvEers tend to complain without theory, empirical experience or numbers to back them. Well you do cite emperical experience but it's always couched in terms of making your game against an unthinking opponent even more lopsided than it already is.

Edited to add: My roommate's kid is out to visit for the summer. He started to play STO this last spring and I tried to teach him but it was difficult to do via in game chat. Then it was always, "Come help me with this mission." and "OMG! This mission is too hard."

So now with him in the same room where I could explain as I showed him. So I taught him some PvP tricks and set him loose against the PvE missions. Within the first combat both on the ground and in space he exclaimed, "OMG! This is so easy!" I told him that was why I PvP when I can. Real minds are so much more unpredictable than the AI this game uses. I swear the AI in MineCraft is more challenging.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
They taste the same.

Last edited by piwright42; 07-26-2012 at 11:31 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 131
# 52
07-26-2012, 11:37 AM
Haka I love ya but you're talking about pvp in a game where it is woefully underdeveloped and will likely remain so for the duration of this game's existence. I understand you wanting to leave for GW2, hell if it wasn't for space combat in STO I'd probably spend 100% of my time there too having played GW1 for 7+ years.

What I find puzzling is though the pvpers in STO continue to demand for something that is (no pun intended) futile at this point. Cryptic has been selling power in the cashshop which is a clear indication of not being concerned in the least for pvp balance. Any other MMO with any care for pvp wouldn't be so heavy-handed with selling power or not at all. But Cryptic with their actions proves time and time again they will never ever give pvp any sort of chance.

To be perfectly honest I don't even understand why pvpers are still in this game at all in this point. It's like watching a group of people just bash their own skulls over a brick wall or putting hopes into something which will never change. Hell right now GW1, SWTOR and even TSW offer great pvp. GW1 offers it right from the box no leveling required.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 53
07-26-2012, 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aveldra View Post
Haka I love ya but you're talking about pvp in a game where it is woefully underdeveloped and will likely remain so for the duration of this game's existence. I understand you wanting to leave for GW2, hell if it wasn't for space combat in STO I'd probably spend 100% of my time there too having played GW1 for 7+ years.

What I find puzzling is though the pvpers in STO continue to demand for something that is (no pun intended) futile at this point. Cryptic has been selling power in the cashshop which is a clear indication of not being concerned in the least for pvp balance. Any other MMO with any care for pvp wouldn't be so heavy-handed with selling power or not at all. But Cryptic with their actions proves time and time again they will never ever give pvp any sort of chance.

To be perfectly honest I don't even understand why pvpers are still in this game at all in this point. It's like watching a group of people just bash their own skulls over a brick wall or putting hopes into something which will never change. Hell right now GW1, SWTOR and even TSW offer great pvp. GW1 offers it right from the box no leveling required.
You're actually very correct, I really can't deny your points.

I suppose my major flaw is I don't simply run when a problem presents itself. I'm a man who believes in correcting problems, not continuing them and hiding our shame under a rug like a coward and failure.

It could very well be a flaw... but that persistence has lead me to be successful in real life with a damn fine job, a beautiful wife, and a brilliant child.

Why should it not apply elsewhere?

Call me a sucker I suppose. I aspire for better things, and STO has that potential.

They just **** on it at every turn.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 14
# 54
07-26-2012, 12:50 PM
Let me simply state again if you want to do PvP, I for one don't and thankfully the battle zone missions are few where its not a clear choice (two with Borg in them noted here as an example) so for me the ships as is are fine f2p.

The missions are fun, the PvE team games are fun, the new Fleet mechanics awesome and the PW company is just trying to make money and offer more content. And some are attacking them over one mechanic the Fleet Ships which are optional like I stated a Tier 4 ship in a fleet decked out decently with a good crew and player can do PvE well and do missions well enough. In PvP team games they are likely a weaker link but the Tier 5 ships are just marginally better in a fleet usually more hull points and one device added in its not a big deal breaker.

If you don't like to do PvE fleet actions and the like then fine go play a game where PvP is better, if you stay you must accept the way the game is and send productive input to the company for changes you might like. But you can get an Odyssey for 200,000 Fleet Credits so I don't see the issue if you can't get modules then wait and buy a ship that way.

Noone is forcing players to do anything you can play free from Level 1 to Level 50 and never spend a dime and have fun if you like the game and are willing to settle with less of an advantage in one area PvP after some point in the game.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 55
07-26-2012, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladith View Post
Let me simply state again if you want to do PvP, I for one don't and thankfully the battle zone missions are few where its not a clear choice (two with Borg in them noted here as an example) so for me the ships as is are fine f2p.

The missions are fun, the PvE team games are fun, the new Fleet mechanics awesome and the PW company is just trying to make money and offer more content. And some are attacking them over one mechanic the Fleet Ships which are optional like I stated a Tier 4 ship in a fleet decked out decently with a good crew and player can do PvE well and do missions well enough. In PvP team games they are likely a weaker link but the Tier 5 ships are just marginally better in a fleet usually more hull points and one device added in its not a big deal breaker.

Hakaishin: And that's your choice.

Should not expect the same of the rest of us.

PvPers are angry because we HAVE been sending feedback to the company for 2 bloody f**king years. All with the same old promise, "We'll get to it eventually."

Well, eventually's come and gone about 18 months ago, along with our patience.


If you don't like to do PvE fleet actions and the like then fine go play a game where PvP is better, if you stay you must accept the way the game is and send productive input to the company for changes you might like. But you can get an Odyssey for 200,000 Fleet Credits so I don't see the issue if you can't get modules then wait and buy a ship that way.

Hakaishin: Why is it that every time someone brings up a problem, the first thing people say is, "Ignore the problem! Run away!"

What if we like the general gameplay mechanics of STO, but simply want PvP to finally be addressed just once after 2 years of our ENTIRE community being COMPLETELY ignored?

We've tried productive input.

We've tried being polite.

There are limits to human patience, however.

If you were paying me money, but I ignored you completely for 2 DAMN YEARS altogether, would you not be incredibly pissed off?

If not, I question your humanity... and your set of balls.

"If you don't like PvE, go play another game!" = "If you don't like this obvious problem, give up and run away!"

Pathetic response from pathetic cowards.

Grow a pair and actually address the problem.


Noone is forcing players to do anything you can play free from Level 1 to Level 50 and never spend a dime and have fun if you like the game and are willing to settle with less of an advantage in one area PvP after some point in the game.

Hakaishin: Same useless argument. Grow a pair and face the damn problem instead of trying to encourage cowardice and being too weak and inferior to address it openly.
As always... responses in red.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 56
07-27-2012, 07:00 AM
No one can grow a pair it seems. It would appear my assumption of this game's PvE community is very much correct. When it is no longer valid to use that "run away if you don't like it" because men solve problems instead of avoiding them, they cower because there is no snide remark that would make that cowardice anything more than what it is - cowardice.

Aw well. Can't say I didn't try to offer the alternative. "Ignorance is strength!" says the PvE community of STO... or at least its forum. Collective punishment has never been a good idea, so I will limit it where it belongs and the end result is that the forum is only visited by a small percentage of the population as a whole.

That said, will continue to log in to contribute to SOB's forced PvE slavery via the starbase system in order for the fleet to remain competitive in PvP and when my resources are exhausted...

...because I refuse to mimic the cowards here...

...I will simply not log in anymore and hold my breath for Guild Wars 2's head start on August 25th.

That way all the carebears will be rid of the mean old Hakaishin who insists that they hurt their brains and think instead of using voided ideas, or consider an idea from the perspective of another human being before ranting off nonsense.

So cruel of me...
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 14
# 57
07-27-2012, 03:18 PM
I happen to play a few f2p games World of Tanks for PvP, Champions PvP and PvE and STO PvE and Fleet Roleplay are my top ones.

If I want to hammer on people I don't come here I go to WoT's usually which doesn't favor spending money for an advantage and Champions online you can choose if your up against Freeforms (their version of the wallet warriors here) or not hit the archetype ones.

Just seems to me looking at this game there is no way to seperate the wallet warriors and regular joes, unless you go item by item a ship has in it or something I would think that would be hard to do.

I looked over the missions and all if you do many of them you can get very cool things for your ships. For reference in Champions online a good friend hit 40th level, has a dozen pets and sidekicks and never spent a dime and is one of the best PvP characters in the game. Maybe you need to do that here do the missions, load up on the good tech and then play with the best ship you can get. I will add on topic again the Fleet Ships are not much worse than Tier 5 ships you buy in fact most look competative in design. If its the case that one extra unit in the ship or that added 8-9% armor is a critical difference do what we do in World of Tanks play to what you are good at.

For example one PvP Team match I destroyed my ship with a big boom after my team tracctor beamed and gravity welled away and I took out three big vessels. Then hello just came back to fight in a bit. Death is not death in this game you just have to go back and keep trying. And yes I was clearly weaker but my tank build did what it does well kept me in the fight and taking hits for the team, and did still get in some kills. There is a reason for Respawning in some games. In WoT your tank dies your done with the match.

My view is on the Fleet Ships get one if you want, if not spend a bit more for another vessel there are ample options if you want to and if your more a casual player there is no issue if you stick to the Tier 4 ships they are fine and your first is free. The cost of the Fleet Ship modules is elective and I would get one if you fancy them.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 58
07-27-2012, 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladith View Post
I happen to play a few f2p games World of Tanks for PvP, Champions PvP and PvE and STO PvE and Fleet Roleplay are my top ones.

If I want to hammer on people I don't come here I go to WoT's usually which doesn't favor spending money for an advantage and Champions online you can choose if your up against Freeforms (their version of the wallet warriors here) or not hit the archetype ones.

Just seems to me looking at this game there is no way to seperate the wallet warriors and regular joes, unless you go item by item a ship has in it or something I would think that would be hard to do.

I looked over the missions and all if you do many of them you can get very cool things for your ships. For reference in Champions online a good friend hit 40th level, has a dozen pets and sidekicks and never spent a dime and is one of the best PvP characters in the game. Maybe you need to do that here do the missions, load up on the good tech and then play with the best ship you can get. I will add on topic again the Fleet Ships are not much worse than Tier 5 ships you buy in fact most look competative in design. If its the case that one extra unit in the ship or that added 8-9% armor is a critical difference do what we do in World of Tanks play to what you are good at.

For example one PvP Team match I destroyed my ship with a big boom after my team tracctor beamed and gravity welled away and I took out three big vessels. Then hello just came back to fight in a bit. Death is not death in this game you just have to go back and keep trying. And yes I was clearly weaker but my tank build did what it does well kept me in the fight and taking hits for the team, and did still get in some kills. There is a reason for Respawning in some games. In WoT your tank dies your done with the match.

My view is on the Fleet Ships get one if you want, if not spend a bit more for another vessel there are ample options if you want to and if your more a casual player there is no issue if you stick to the Tier 4 ships they are fine and your first is free. The cost of the Fleet Ship modules is elective and I would get one if you fancy them.
You are politely trying to address the issue, so I cannot badger you with a clean conscience, however it is very clear (and by your own admission to being an RPer and PvEer first and foremost) you do not PvP very much, and to that end do not have the experience some of us do in what works, and what does not work in that scenario.

That said, I refer you again to the two options I presented to you.

1.) Take your Tier 4 ship and fight my heavily decked out Armitage (8x ACC3 weapons, all pay-to-win consoles, and of course it is a pay-to-win ship). If you win, obviously I am very wrong in my statements about PvP and the ships and I will even publicly apologize.

If I win, however, that is to state the contrary.

2.) Statistically place the basic Tier 4 RA Fleet Escort (don't know or care what its new name is) with whatever upgrades you can buy with basic Energy Credits against the new Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier (the Armitage +1) with the additional hull, shields, console, fighters, AMS, Graviton Pulse (admittedly available with EC as well), the torp console, and whatever other goodies I feel like putting in it that are available with Zen.

Take these two ships and have them be piloted by equal skilled PvPers, so that there is no bias between them.

I will promise you, 10/10 engagements, the Fleet Heave Escort Carrier will win, and it will win with great ease by comparison to the Fleet Escort.

You seem like a fairly intelligent individual, so I won't badger insults. But honestly, if you told me that this power difference in PvP didn't matter, I'd be very tempted to smack you upside the head. Admitting your own inexperience with PvP by comparison, this is simply something you'd have to take my word on as an experienced PvPer.

For PvE/RP? You're absolutely correct. It wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. PvE is mind-numbingly boring and easy, so you can take shuttles and win just about every mission.

RP is... well, you should know that answer without me even having to say it.

PvP? The power difference... ANY power difference... is glaringly obvious, similar to stubbing your toe...

...with a sledgehammer.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1
# 59
07-27-2012, 09:17 PM
i sse people trying to justify what pwe is doing with the fleet modules. if you figure all the work done and in game material spent and in many cases cash paid for master keys to unlock lock boxes and so on. i should not still have to pay $20 cash out of my pocket to buy a stupid little "fleet ship module" to get an extra concole space and a little extra hull strength. i've been playing this game long before it became ftp which means i have also paid even more cash in the long run to get to the point to get these items. to those who have never put any other money into making this game a success 20 dollars may not seem like a lot. but to those who have already paid our dues it is stupid. besides not all of us can just go to mommy and daddy and ask for money to pend on video games. most of us have lives and other things to spend that 20 bucks on.
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