Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 21
07-31-2012, 01:33 PM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
i eat paste already
Is it at least mint flavored. Mint flavoring is the best.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 22
07-31-2012, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
There really aren't two DPS conventions.
It is blatantly obvious that there is a difference between Sustained and Burst damage.
If you cannot accept this, then I apologise for reality being wrong.

Quote:
Here's something someone posted. And I'm sure this will get a "well that's not what I meant". But here it is. Some dps numbers.

Mk X Beam Array: 752.2 per shot (602 DPS)
Mk X Turret: 338.6 per shot (451.5 DPS)
Mk X Turret with CSV3: 587 per shot (782.6 DPS

Okay great. Over what time frame would this be? How many seconds outside of CSV3 do we need to go before beams once again overtake turrets? What if I used FAW of any rank? would that change things? How about even ONE Beam Overload 3? Do you think one Beam Overload 3 hitting for 60k in one second over the course of a 3 second encounter wins?
Now you're talking.

Beam Array:
4 shots over 4 secs, 1 sec recharge
=3008.8 damage every 5 seconds

Damage inflicted:
After 5 seconds = 3008.8
...
After 25 Seconds = 15044.0
After 26 Seconds = 15796.2
After 27 Seconds = 16548.4
After 28 Seconds = 17300.6
After 29 Seconds = 18052.8
After 30 Seconds = 18052.8


---------------

Standard Turret:
4 shots over 2 secs, 1 sec recharge
= 1354.4 damage every 3 seconds

587 damage per shot when CSV3 is active.
Raw CSV duration = 10 seconds.

10 Second interval:
0-1 [CSV3 activates] 587 damage*2
1-2 587 damage*2
2-3 No damage
3-4 587 damage *2
4-5 587 damage *2
5-6 No damage
6-7 587 damage *2
7-8 587 damage *2
8-9 No damage
9-10 587 damage *2 [CSV3 wears off, but Turret's still firing]
10-11 587 damage *2
11-12 No damage
[Turret recharged and no CSV: normal damage until CSV recharges]
Total Damage inflicted in first 12 seconds = 9392

Over next 3 seconds, standard firing sequence
So at 15 second point, total damage inflicted = 9392+1354.4=10746.4
...
After 24 Seconds: 14809.6
After 25 Seconds: 15486.8
After 26 Seconds: 16164.0
After 27 Seconds: 16164.0
After 30 Seconds: 17518.4


Thus in theory it's not until the 27th Second that a single Beam would start to inch ahead again. And it's very easy to get the recharge time of this ability under 27 seconds - even the MACO 2-piece set bonus would accomplish this.

In reality, multiple Turrets would do considerably more damage than multiple beams because of the lower Weapons Energy Drain. FAW and BO are not Commander level Tactical abilities, so a like-for-like comparison there, whilst potentially interesting, is irrelevant.

Quote:
"The question is are you able to use your abilities to position your opponent so that he is vulnerable to the burst potential of your ship?"
I would hold that the real question is "what is the quickest way to take down this opponent in the time I have available to me, without dying myself?". That holds true for any combat situation in this game, in PVP or PVE.

Usually the answer is that you buff up and then shoot it in the face.

Positioning only comes into the scenario in rare situations: when two or more targets are healing/buffing each other, for example. In which case you stop the cross buffing, either by disabling one of the ships, or by forceably using your abilities to position it out of buff range. And then you buff up and shoot it in the face...

Quote:
Happy flying go shoot something.
Surely that counts as DPS...?

Happy flying, and enjoy the paste: It's yummy.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 141
# 23
07-31-2012, 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
In reality, multiple Turrets would do considerably more damage than multiple beams because of the lower Weapons Energy Drain. FAW and BO are not Commander level Tactical abilities, so a like-for-like comparison there, whilst potentially interesting, is irrelevant.
Surely no less irrelevant than comparing unbuffed weapons to buffed ones. While the majority of your post may make sense, this omission to support your argument makes you lose all credibility.

You may as well go on debating the dps difference between mk12 and mk1 at this point. It's fairly obvious to all of us that unbuffed weapons will do less dps than buffed ones.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 24
08-01-2012, 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonica View Post
Surely no less irrelevant than comparing unbuffed weapons to buffed ones. While the majority of your post may make sense, this omission to support your argument makes you lose all credibility.
I claimed it was irrelevant because my original post was in relation to the Universal Commander ability slot being used for a Tactical BOFF (see many, many posts above).

In that I claimed that "TT1/APB1/[CSV2 or APB2]/CSV3 would probably be the most effective DPS you can get."

CSV3 is a commander level ability. The only thing that we can directly swap this out for which would Impact Beams would be APB3, not BO3 or FAW3. And depending on whether you're talking about PVE or PVP, APB3 might be very useful or might be totally useless.

The reason why I recommended concentrating on CSV3 rather than CSV2 is because the damage buff granted scales differently for Turrets across Rank 3 and Rank 2 than it does for other cannons.


BO3 is certainly useful and a good example of a "Burst" DPS ability, but relies heavilly on prebuffing and crit chance/severity to score big numbers. BFAW is less useful than it has previously been due to accuracy issues, and the nature of the shot targetting makes it somewhat unreliable as a damage buff when fighting more than one opponent.

If you want to change things around, then it's certainly possible to estimate the average DPS over a given time period for 6x Beams using FAW3, as long as we make certain assumptions (versus one target only? target is always in the sideways "Broadside" arc? weapons energy regeneration rate? etc). Factoring in BO3 is trickier - do we assume you use a battery or eptw? At what point in the standard weapons firing sequence is it used (the drain will negatively impact other weapons fire until energy is regenerated)?

Quote:
You may as well go on debating the dps difference between mk12 and mk1 at this point. It's fairly obvious to all of us that unbuffed weapons will do less dps than buffed ones.
Interesting point. If we accept the claim someone made above that "DPS is garbage" then mk1 weapons should be just as effective as mk12 weapons, never mind all this stuff about Beams and Turrets...

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 91
# 25
08-01-2012, 03:13 AM
this thread needs more cowbell
Dork - I.K.S. WeeBugger
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 26
08-01-2012, 04:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawj4ws View Post
this thread needs more cowbell
"Moo"

(/10char)

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
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