Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 11
08-06-2012, 09:10 PM
If you want to DPS with a Cruiser, then switch to an Escort and never look back.
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,297
# 12
08-06-2012, 09:15 PM
Well the things is, escorts don't just kill stuff by simply shooting at it. They use tactical powers to buff their attack, like Attack Pattern Alpha, Cannon Rapid Fire, and a well-timed High Yield volley. A cruiser simply can't use high-level tactical buffs (although a tac captain in a cruiser would have APA).

So you have to take the low-level tac buffs and sci debuffs, and time them right. And keep your weapon power at 125 at all times.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 144
# 13
08-06-2012, 09:17 PM
If you want play a cruiser doing damage next to escort, play Klingon side. I would suggest the Fleet Tor'Kaht: 4 tac consoles, turn rate 10, equipable with cannons, lt. com. tac + lt. tac bridge officer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 227
# 14
08-06-2012, 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadspacex64 View Post
doesn't take much to dip into that 90 degree arc for a torp out of a broadside, or go back into a broadside after the torp fires. pulling 80 running all BA's means when you batteries and eptw are on cooldown you're throwing spitballs...might as well not even shoot until power hits 125, one salvo then wait again.

6xBA is more practical, allows you to maintain dps without significant drops regardless of whether additional power buffs are available. allows you to use your tac abilities anytime...they still benefit more when you have a power buff running but even without far more effective than 8 BA's.

not sure when the last time some of you suggesting 8ba's ran a beam boat....but power consumption skyrocketed several patches back (before s6) forced me to rework my beam cruiser with a serious eye towards power drain vs dps and number of beam arrays. 8 slams power levels down, even worse if using FAW or BO. spitwads.

cruisers require more finesse in maneuvering to get the most out of them than charge in cannons blazing escorts. needless to say skills, boff abilities need more tuning as well. the only cruiser boost that's really needed is in the power department...kind of ridiculous that a ship so much larger than an escort shares the same power characteristics with regards to drain and recharge.
Agreed, 5-6 beams seems like plenty and more practical now. On my Advanced Heavy Re-fit I run 5 BAs and 3 Torps(2 fore, 1 aft) with HY II and Spread III. The Excelsior turns fast enough to take advantage of the torps when they are loaded(great with DOFFs that lower recharge time) and with 5 disruptor arrays going full blast I can dish out some pretty solid DPS(seen over 2k per shot once the debuff kicks in) and great burst damage with Torp Spread 3, especially when the torpedoes critical.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 152
# 15
08-06-2012, 09:22 PM
Cruisers can't do the DPS you want them to do. They're tanks, there's a trade off.

Escorts can't take the damage that a Cruiser can take :| But they do a ton of DPS.

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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 190
# 16
08-06-2012, 09:39 PM
Hmm. Deadspacex64 had a solid idea.
If Cruisers had an innate buff to power recharge (EPS) and a little innate drain resistance specifically geared towards weapon drain, that would be interesting. Still wouldn't put them anywhere near on par with escorts (but then, I don't think they should be).

As it is, my dps isn't too shabby for a cruiser. (according to logs I've been parsing).
My primary job is still tanking and aggro management.
2x EP2W, 2x EP2S, points in performance and appropriate power levels.
6 beams, fore and aft torp. 2x phaser relays. (Gal-R).
The ONLY thing I lost was one of my two eng teams. (kept the other, A2SIF, Ext3, and RSP).
I still tank and support my team as well as before.
Just have to keep balancing the EPtS/W to keep things maxed.
Oh, and if you're an Eng, make use of Nadion Inversion
-------------------------
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]

"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 207
# 17 my gut reaction is
08-06-2012, 09:41 PM
No...no they do not...they have plenty of ways to dps in addition to their phasers/cannons/dualsies.

They are not built to hand out dps in the same way an escort does.



Flying a beam boat is also a recipe for trouble in my experiences...way too much power usage w/o a kick like a kinetic can offer.


The best compromise thus far is the gal x...which i love and declare as the best cruiser of the game for the Feds.

Before anyone claims it does not turn worth a hill of beans my reaction is duh........Using tractors and repulsors will keep your enemies in your most lethal fire arcs.

In pvp they arer less useful but in PVE they rock...move slow..control your speed bursts......ALSO A LITTLE trick i will divulge........going to max impulse then stopping while at max impulse i.e lowering your speed but keeping the max impulse lit up allows you to stop much faster..I use it in my carrier all the time. I am not sure if this is an oversight or if they envisioned the max power also stopping you faster but i know it works.....I can stop on a dime in my cruisers...it will take practice though.

If you want a cruiser to do more dps...get a tac in there...their innate abilities really help... I also find that investing in power to weapons 3 gives a solid boost to my damage although still not as good as other tac buffs. Also there are engineer abilities that penetrate shields more effectively and boost your dps. The other ability that damages them over time and degrades their dps is also Jim Dandy...

Coupled with venting gas and tractors to weaken their shields (assign the right doffs) you can be laying waste to most mobs in STF's and also surviving them.....

Make sure to specialize in your weapons of choice as well......be it energy or kinetic...all the boosts can help.....



As a side note....PLEASE do not come to STF's thinking that "Fire at WILL" or "Beam overload" will save the day alone......Fire at will is garbage when the skies are filled with targets.Beam over,load will do a spike amount of damage then you face a brief time where u need a recharge...and on a beam boat with 8 banks you will recharge so slowly unless u commit the right buffs and have the eps etc.


I was in an stf (when they were working) and quite literally had 4 cruisers and me in a sci and they all were "fire at will" I just have to giggle to myself when i think the dps they are wasting..
Napoleon's final defeat came at Waterloo. Must've been embarrassing. You're the f'ing emperor. You conquered all of Europe, only to lose in a place with a stupid name like Waterloo. Or Watergate, or Whitewater. Note to politicans: Stay on land.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 190
# 18
08-06-2012, 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adabisi View Post
As a side note....PLEASE do not come to STF's thinking that "Fire at WILL" or "Beam overload" will save the day alone......Fire at will is garbage when the skies are filled with targets.Beam over,load will do a spike amount of damage then you face a brief time where u need a recharge...and on a beam boat with 8 banks you will recharge so slowly unless u commit the right buffs and have the eps etc.


I was in an stf (when they were working) and quite literally had 4 cruisers and me in a sci and they all were "fire at will" I just have to giggle to myself when i think the dps they are wasting..
I use FAW2.
While it does increase my damage on say, 2-4 targets, on large groups, it's not about the damage.
If you see me using FAW on a large group of, say, 6 spheres... it's to keep them aggro'd on me and not you.
With max threat and decent DPS, it does just that.

I'm built to tank. Keeping things shooting at me is my job.
FAW helps us tanks do that very well.

So, next time you're giggling about it, keep in mind, that cruiser in a beam boat FAW'ing a large group is doing it to take a bullet for you.
-------------------------
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]

"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
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# 19
08-06-2012, 10:52 PM
lots of misinformation. stop reading when you get to my first post op. weapons power currently having a usable pool over125 makes all this none 8 beam array advice wrong. using 8 beam arrays when overcaped to around 150 power with 2x BOs and 1 eps console and a stack of weapons batteries will be legitimate damage dealing. the other valid option is 4 single cannons and 4 turrets on ether an excelsior or galor. kdf cruisers with 2 turn consoles can use a DBB, DHCs, and aft turrets quite successfully too. every other weapons build is just spitting into the wind.

well, in pve anything works fine, and thats the problem. thats why everyone thinks they are giving good advice. in an environment where you need to use 100% of your ship's potential to win, what i have advised works, and the rest doesn't.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 20
08-06-2012, 11:13 PM
First of all get out of sci oddy. The sensor analysis buff takes a while to get up, so you better target big ships instead frigates. That ship is not a tactical ship. If you are not a tactical captain, you will never even get close to escort.

dontdrunkimshoot suggestion is solid, as it doesn't require you to be specially agile or trying to utilize torpedoes in combat. Ie. everyone can do it.

I brought Assault Cruiser (tactical captain) for PvE during weekend and had really no issue. I actually felt I was killing more stuff than my teams escorts (PUG).

I use 2 beam arrays front, 2x photons front, 3 beam arrays aft, 1 photon aft (with 2-3 purple torpedo doffs). But then again, I like moving around and running in middle of combat, hence why I often face my target and when I do, the torpedo barrage makes short work of anything in PvE. I just move like a snake in a slithering pattern switching from broadside to front to unload torps, then pass the target and finish with aft HYT, then switching to some target before me and shoot it. Basically I'm nothing like those cruiser pilots that just sit there and shoot.

There is really many ways how you can play cruiser in PvE, but I have always found 8 beam cruisers dull gameplay experience tho.

Also, if you want to destroy stuff quickly, fly an escort.
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