Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
05-16-2009, 12:31 PM
ok but again paramount wanted a re vamp on a show that could not follow even its own timeline. for instance Did Scoty get saved by the ncc-1701-d which was captain picard but he belived that it was captain kirk but he died on the ncc-1701-b but not really only to be trap by the nexus. Trek needed an refit itself im a trekie and proud of it. treker is just stupid and they want to keep things that have been erased. if they keep going on with nothing being change then im not playing this WOW look alike...........!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 92
05-16-2009, 01:36 PM
Nice read, can't wait for the next installment.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 93
05-16-2009, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naterag View Post
ok but again paramount wanted a re vamp on a show that could not follow even its own timeline. for instance Did Scoty get saved by the ncc-1701-d which was captain picard but he belived that it was captain kirk but he died on the ncc-1701-b but not really only to be trap by the nexus. Trek needed an refit itself im a trekie and proud of it. treker is just stupid and they want to keep things that have been erased. if they keep going on with nothing being change then im not playing this WOW look alike...........!
Jolan'tru naterag
well said and I'm also a Trekkie
Lt. Commander
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# 94
05-16-2009, 01:45 PM
Paramount has already said that the movie events will be "fixed" by the end of the film story arc, so Cryptic can ignore any changes.
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# 95
05-16-2009, 03:21 PM
[SPOILER WARNING! Although I tried to avoid it, to make a last point I needed to reference a specific event in the new Star Trek movie. If you haven't seen it, you may want to stop reading this post now. Sorry!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey_Ghost
Not only did they travel back in time, but the way in which they did so also sent them to an alternate universe with a time-line nearly the same (or exactly the same... so a parallel universe?) as the PRIME universe. So the PRIME universe is unaffected by any changes made to the others time-line.
You know, this actually got me thinking about two things.

First of all, in what way is the "alternate reality" of Nero in Kirk's era different from the Mirror Universe? Isn't the Mirror Universe properly considered to be an alternate reality as well, albeit one that diverged earlier and drastically different from the "primary reality" of the TV shows and movies?

Secondly, when Nero shows up in the past and starts making changes to the primary timeline, where are the timecops?

Isn't this exactly the kind of "temporal incursion" that people like Braxton from the 29th century Temporal Integrity Commission are charged with preventing? (For that matter, there's already a Department of Temporal Investigations in the DS9 era -- where the heck were they?)

Obviously Abrams & Co. just took whatever bits of Star Trek they liked and ignored everything else. Since the whole TIC thing would have just gotten in the way of the story they were determined to tell, that aspect of canonical Star Trek was simply discarded. (Assuming the writers even knew about this; Abrams almost certainly did not.) So it's understandable from the storytelling perspective of the new movie why the timecops didn't make an appearance to either stop Nero themselves or (like Daniels did with Archer) maneuver extant Starfleet personnel into positions where they could prevent changes to the timeline.

But it's still an interesting question from the perspective of trying to fit the movie into the complete Trek universe.

...

On that last subject, there is an absolutely fascinating essay I came across while researching this comment: ‘Star Trek’ - Strange Fascination Fascinating Me from the Pop Culture Zoo by Joseph Dilworth Jr.

Anyone interested in how the changes by Nero fit into -- and change -- the overall, complete Star Trek universe should go read Dilworth's essay and the comments that follow it. (Note: This assumes you've seen the new movie. If you haven't, please note that there are spoilers there.)

To close this post, there's one bit of speculation in particular from Dilworth that could have a direct link to Star Trek Online.

Specifically, he says:

Quote:
[T]he destruction of Vulcan raises a point worth speculating on. Considering that the UFP will become much more human-centric now it is easy to imagine that tensions with the Klingon Empire will continue for many, many years and possibly even heighten. This makes it unlikely that the Federation and the Empire will sign the Khitomer Accords in 2293 (Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country).
Star Trek Online is not set in the alternate reality of the new movie Star Trek. A lot of problems would be solved if it had been, but it's not; it's set in the canonical, primary-reality Star Trek. And we know this not just because previous "Path" entries have mentioned the Khitomer Accords, but because they've referenced Sela.

Sela existed -- could exist -- only due to two events:
  • The Tasha Yar from an alternate timeline traveled back in time to 2344 aboard the Enterprise-C, reentering (recreating?) the primary timeline by protecting a Klingon outpost from Romulans.
  • Some of the crew of the Enterprise-C, captured by the attacking Romulans, were taken to Romulus, and Tasha Yar was among them.
So the presence of Sela in the history leading to 2409, as well as the fact that the Federation was not defeated by the Klingon Empire (in the alternate timeline of TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise"), suggests that we can't use the possibility that the Khitomer Accords were never signed in 2293 as the reason why the UFP and the KE are on the brink of war in Star Trek Online.

It's a shame, really; this would have been a neat way to tie the movie to the game and to provide a semi-plausible rationalization for having a lot of combat content in the Star Trek universe in Star Trek Online.

But even if that's a dead end, there's still a very interesting observation possible, based on two points. Firstly, in the new alternate reality caused by Nero, the Federation and the Klingon Empire might never have signed the original Khitomer Accords. And secondly, in the alternate reality of "Yesterday's Enterprise," it's mentioned that an important "peace treaty" between the UFP and the KE was under way when the Enterprise-C was pulled away from protecting the Klingon outpost on Narendra III... and this might refer to the Second Khitomer Accords.

This suggests a very interesting possibility: that the the Picard-era war between the Federation and Klingon Empire could be a future moment in the new alternate reality created by Nero in the new Star Trek movie.

In other words, the alternate reality of the Star Trek movie (2233-2258) and the alternate reality of the wartime Enterprise-D from "Yesterday's Enterprise" (2366) could be the same reality -- just at different moments along that particular timeline.

So there are my questions to you folks.

Anybody else think this bit of speculation seems plausible, or are there canonical events contradicting it?

And supposing it were true, is there any way it could be used to help explain/create the Star Trek universe of 2409 in Star Trek Online?

--Flatfingers
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# 96
05-16-2009, 03:26 PM
Still say it's a good time for Sela to step up to the plate.

It's funny that the reason they didn't go for Sela in Star Trek: Nemesis, and went for Donatra (a new character at the time) was because the Half Romulan/Half Human Sela's backstory would have supposedly slowed down the movie too much.

So it would be quite a bit of poetic irony if Sela became Empress if not Praetor.
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# 97
05-16-2009, 04:06 PM
interesting.
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# 98
05-16-2009, 05:14 PM
I wonder if she got sucked back in time like spock and nero did
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# 99
05-16-2009, 05:18 PM
I wonder if she got suck back in time like nero and spock
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# 100
05-16-2009, 05:22 PM
nice point brody I like it
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