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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,664
# 21
08-13-2012, 05:22 AM
without getting into the drama side of thing: There is a balance sheet, it ALWAYS includes counters. Why then is of three cannon types only one considered useful? (Dual Heavy Cannons, Gecko)?

As for using single cannons on cruisers and SV, well since beam and cannon skills have been merged it became even more viable, still Singles seem niche at best, and so do duals. Compater to Dual/Single beams where this isn't the case. I m sure the Aventine will bring us some Cannony sci vessel that ll break cannon mechanics in game anyway. its coming soon(tm)
Dear Devs please share your insights with us, because it doesn't make much sense from where we all stand.
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Last edited by havam; 08-13-2012 at 05:27 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,380
# 22
08-13-2012, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Why did Cryptic and/or Al Rivera give EVERY ESCORT and Klingon Cruiser and Bop DUAL CANNONS stock layout as opposed to giving some single cannons or Dual heavies as is being suggested is the proper cannon for this versus that ship?
I think I have a reason for this, back when the game launched Cannons shared a cooldown so only two DHC's could actually fire if you had a third it would never get a chance to fire. So they put beam arrays on to give you something that would fire.

I know my old PVP config used to be 2x DHC, 1x DBB, 1x Torp, with turrets in the back. While a joke now it was good when four DHC's would only see two of them Firing.

I don't quite recall but I believe that Single Cannons and turrets where exempt from this global cooldown for both Dual and Dual Heavies.

@Havam, I don't know what you mean about Beam and Cannon Skills being merged. Do you mean BOFF abilities or the Skill tree?
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 23
08-13-2012, 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
I think I have a reason for this, back when the game launched Cannons shared a cooldown so only two DHC's could actually fire if you had a third it would never get a chance to fire. So they put beam arrays on to give you something that would fire.

I know my old PVP config used to be 2x DHC, 1x DBB, 1x Torp, with turrets in the back. While a joke now it was good when four DHC's would only see two of them Firing.

I don't quite recall but I believe that Single Cannons and turrets where exempt from this global cooldown for both Dual and Dual Heavies.

@Havam, I don't know what you mean about Beam and Cannon Skills being merged. Do you mean BOFF abilities or the Skill tree?
This is an awesome response. I never would've known as I don't believe I played until into the second month of the game. I don't ever remember this being the case. But if you're right then thats a very valuable piece of information which then explains alot. But nevertheless poses even ANOTHER question. Why haven't these weapons been updated to accomodate for this?

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 24
08-13-2012, 07:11 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
Rude Tone? This information is not in the game. Its not on the sto wiki.
Which I explained "why" simply in my response. STO has a lacking for ingame info on many things.

As for which cannons is meant for which ship?
None are "meant" to be on any ship as the choice is up to the player and the descriptions of vessels merely states that they can or can not equip cannons.
Dual cannons tend to be the generic, middle of the three choice as a default.

KDF use more cannons in thier vessels due to the more warlike nature of the species and greater handling of the battle Cruiser in general.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 960
# 25
08-13-2012, 07:19 AM
Quote:
But nevertheless poses even ANOTHER question. Why haven't these weapons been updated to accomodate for this?
It's simply not a priority. Even the newest players quickly learn on their own that there's little point to sticking with the standard-issue equipment, so Cryptic has yet to feel that the default loadouts need to be changed to reflect the new viability of pure cannon builds.

As well, the update that did encourage escort players to switch to full DHCs was somewhat recent.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 26
08-13-2012, 07:19 AM
A better question would be "Why are there no 360 degree beam turrets?"

Seriously, similar dps to turrets but a beam.

Pretty please.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 27
08-13-2012, 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post

Which I explained "why" simply in my response. STO has a lacking for ingame info on many things.

As for which cannons is meant for which ship?
None are "meant" to be on any ship as the choice is up to the player and the descriptions of vessels merely states that they can or can not equip cannons.
Dual cannons tend to be the generic, middle of the three choice as a default.

KDF use more cannons in thier vessels due to the more warlike nature of the species and greater handling of the battle Cruiser in general.
Good old Roach. I've enjoyed your presence on these forums for as long as I can remember playing the game and visiting this sunny side of the Empire. I"m not proposing the game should necessarily be on toddler mode. What I am suggesting is that basic information such as the default loadout reflecting the most optimized build a given ship class should consider would go a long ways to establishing an unwritten blueprint for players to resource as an effective layout and guideline.

Such as all cannons and a quantum torpedo on escorts. Four single beam array and chronitons on science ships. Six single beam array's, a photon mine launcher and a photon torpedo on cruisers. Quantum and cannons on escorts for burst. Single beams for subsystem targeting and chroniton torpedoes for secondary effect supplemental to science skills on science ships. Six beams for sustained dps coupled with photons torpedoes as well as one aft mine launcher because of the fast recharge time and consistent firing rate used to compensate for lack of turn and manueverability on the cruiser. Just something so that regardless of how much a player might experiment they could always fall back on the stock build for general guidance to be as competitive as possible in pvE AND pvP.

I don't assume to know what that build would be for everyone. I know what it looks like for me. I guess it could be argued that its possible that build is the one Cryptic currently has standard on all newly acquired ships. I agree information is and has been lacking in game. But part of having a healthy pvE AND pvP community is having educated players. And that means educational resources first and foremost in game.

As far as one cannon or another not being "meant" for any one ship. I respectfully disagree good sir. As one player previously mentioned only certain cruiser can use duals and dual heavy cannons. So that would logically leave only single cannons for any other cruisers to run. Another example are dual beams which have a horrible arc. The same as cannons. It can also be logically concluded that they are meant for ships with superb turn rate to be able to effectively exploit their horrible arc while at the same time using their superb turn rate to also make up for the weapons lack of broadside and 110 degree blind spot. The best of these choices ship wise being an escort. And the least wise of these choices being a cruiser.

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.

Last edited by tripwire690; 08-13-2012 at 07:57 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 28
08-13-2012, 08:45 AM
I think there's a lot of hearsay and rumor about this, and I'm not intending to add my own, but from what I can understand DCs have a lower damage-per-volley but fire more volleys per second. Big problem as far as I can see is that DHCs get an innate CritD which means DHCs will always out-DPS DCs over a decent enough timeline.

DCs *in theory* would be useful for builds that want to proc a lot of on-hit effects. However, I've heard that it doesn't work as you'd think and so even in this case, DHCs are preferable.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 29
08-13-2012, 03:29 PM
RE: Procs.


There was some discussion on the nature of procs in the PVP forums by Borticus a bit before for the merge, with the takeaway being that damage type procs (Phaser disable, Polaron drain, etc.) were determined on a cycle-level for each weapon. In essence, when you fired your Polaron array at the very beginning it'd check to see if it proc'd.

The Tetryon Glider effect of the two-piece Omega set works differently, as it rides on every pulse of damage your weapon deals. Plainly, a single array will deal Tetryon Glider damage four times in one firing cycle. This would make DC's and turrets outstanding for the Glider effect if the damage were not tied to weapon power level, which the constantly cycling DC's swallow wholesale, depleting your damage output, and moving further away from the instantaneous damage of DHC's.
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