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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
UPDATE: see this post http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=207 for the end of the discussion and voting.


ORIGINAL POST:

I've tested the new patch on tribble test server.
Facts:

1)
- PSW3 before the patch delivered about 10K damage without Particle Generators consoles (but with 9 points on the skill)
- PSW3 AFTER the patch delivers about 4K damage without Particle Generators consoles (but with 9 points on the skill)

2)
- PSW3 after the patch delivered about 20K damage with 4 purple MK XII Particle Generators consoles.
- PSW3 AFTER the patch delivers about 5K damage with 4 purple MK XII Particle Generators consoles.

It was the only SCI commander ability that was working well, and this comes after:
- Nerfing and making useless all SCI shield drain abilities (CPB, Tachyon Beam)
- Nerfing and making useless (even in PVE) Gravity Well 3

Only tyken\power drain builds are working now on a SCI ship, even too much, THAT must be nerfed, but AFTER fixing all the above.
The majority of pvpers are escort\cruiser captains and they complain on the forums when they get shockwaved, mostly ignoring that in order for this ability to be deadly this required:
- heavy investment in particle generators consoles
- target 3km range
- target facing shield down (usually for a second)
- target without brace for impact or emergency power to inertial dampers active
- target with resistance debuffed

I suppose that next step is nerf TBR, so that all SCI captains must switch to escorts or cruiser.

If this patch makes its way to holodeck i will stop playing.

Last edited by francescos772; 08-19-2012 at 10:58 PM.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,276
# 2
08-15-2012, 04:48 PM
Previously, PSW3 had a math error causing skill bonuses to apply on top of one another.

In other words, if it did 1000 base and 200% that at max skill, the math was:

(1000*2)*2

That's just wrong. Further made obvious by the fact that this error did not exist in PSW1 or PSW2.

I'll accept arguments that the power needs to be more damaging in general, or maybe more effective in other ways, but claiming that an error should stay live because it was helping you perform well is a logical fallacy.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...

Last edited by borticuscryptic; 08-15-2012 at 04:52 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 297
# 3
08-15-2012, 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Previously, PSW3 had a math error causing skill bonuses to apply manipulatively.

In other words, if it did 1000 base and 200% that at max skill, the math was:

(1000*2)*2

That's just wrong. Further made obvious by the fact that this error did not exist in PSW1 or PSW2.

I'll accept arguments that the power needs to be more damaging in general, or maybe more effective in other ways, but claiming that an error should stay live because it was helping you perform well is a logical fallacy.
Then it will indeed need a buff after the fix is in place.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
# 4
08-15-2012, 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Previously, PSW3 had a math error causing skill bonuses to apply manipulatively.

In other words, if it did 1000 base and 200% that at max skill, the math was:

(1000*2)*2

That's just wrong. Further made obvious by the fact that this error did not exist in PSW1 or PSW2.

I'll accept arguments that the power needs to be more damaging in general, or maybe more effective in other ways, but claiming that an error should stay live because it was helping you perform well is a logical fallacy.
Are you sure it's an error?
The dev that implemented it probably concluded that PSW1, being available also on escorts with LTC slot, would have been too much deadly (take down shields with rapid fire 3+omega, boom with PSW1).
PSW3 is a commander ability, therefore only available on SCI ships, SCI ships need time to take down enemy shields, because they lack dps, and also because shield stripping abilities are broken, but if they manage to do so, then they can use PSW3.
Now, can you please tell how a SCI toon is supposed to play?
Also, there is an error even in your "fix": no difference in PSW3 damage betweeen 4 or 3 purple mk xii particle gen consoles: did you cap the skill???
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,076
# 5
08-15-2012, 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post

I'll accept arguments that the power needs to be more damaging in general, or maybe more effective in other ways, but claiming that an error should stay live because it was helping you perform well is a logical fallacy.
You guys need to review all the offensive science powers! Near the hole community agrees that they are useless! Please, consider a review to them!

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www.divisionhispana.com
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,276
# 6
08-15-2012, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerritourug View Post
You guys need to review all the offensive science powers! Near the hole community agrees that they are useless! Please, consider a review to them!
For the record, I agree, too. Finding time in the schedule to do so is ... non-trivial.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
# 7
08-15-2012, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
For the record, I agree, too. Finding time in the schedule to do so is ... non-trivial.
But you found the time to "kill" the last working boff ability, making a whole class of ships useless until next fix.
Also, consider what i've written before: it was correct that PSW3 benefitted more than PSW1 from particle generators!
When this patch hits holodeck, no SCI build will be useful, except for a tyken build because power drains are also broken.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 8
08-15-2012, 05:14 PM
i think all science powers need a general buff.

shockwave 3 was doing too much damage.

now itll be doing too little damage.

ever since the stuns got nerfed they were no longer really used for that, now the damage is being "nerfed" for the only damageing science power out there.

there really is no point in flying a science ship anymore. escorts and cruisers can do everything a science can, and do it better.

why is that?

the game has no real crowd control.

power drain powers can be taken by cruisers and escorts and phasers are stil the number 1 power disable in the game.

heals can be taken by everyone, why bother with a science ship

escorts are still king of damage, science used to help set up for the kill with stuns, and holds but now you dont need to do this. you just sit and super stack damage buffs until the target is destroyed.

the only useful offensive science power now is viral matrix, and its prehaps a bit too strong for what it does (espically combined with 3 duty officers that make them better.)

my vm 1 does a 7.8 second disable followed by 2 25% chances to disable 2 more subsystems for 7.2 seconds.

this is a power that can be used by select escorts and cruisers. why bother with a science ship?


shockwave 3 may not have been working as intended, with these changes it just becomes an over netured power that is wasting a slot that can be used by... well nothing else really.

maybe bumping up the multiplyer for the shockwaves with each version is in order? have 1 bbe 100%, 2 be 125% and 3 be 150%?

if 2 and 3 are too close in damage thered be no need for 3 since they take up the same commander slot.

borticus, i'd really like to know if its possible to give the science seciton of the skill tree a redo. this is where a lot of the problems for science is comming from.

to few selections boost/resist too many powers.

the root cause of bad science is the skill tree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
For the record, I agree, too. Finding time in the schedule to do so is ... non-trivial.
who is it non-trival to? id like to know who to send my letters of pleading/beggingness too to get science back into "playability" compaired to crusiers and escorts.

Last edited by matteo716maikai; 08-15-2012 at 05:20 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 114
# 9
08-15-2012, 05:20 PM
On the receiving end of psw3's I haven't had a problem, (even if the math is broken).
Basically there are other more annoying abilities that need a look at first imo. Maybe VM/ Some of the drains/tricmine etc.

Your Ramming Speed III deals 52098 (99235) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Remus.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
# 10
08-15-2012, 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716maikai View Post
i think all science powers need a general buff.

shockwave 3 may not have been working as intended, with these changes it just becomes an over netured power that is wasting a slot that can be used by... well nothing else really.
Exactly.
Now, tell this to someone that spent:
- 20 bucks on fleet dssv
- 20 bucks on fleet advanced research science vessel
- 20 bucks on fleet recon
- 150 bucks on the tholian ship
- 30 millions EC for 4 particle generators consoles

And he ends with four useless ships with four useless consoles, because time to fix the fix needs to be found on the schedule.
Just prevent tomorrow patch from hitting holodeck until you find the time to fix sci powers, Borticus!
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