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Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 24
# 21
08-15-2012, 11:23 PM
This change will actually make starbase incursion so much harder now, tbh I'm not sure why balancing for pvp sake is worthwhile, when its already pretty clear pvp is worthless atm.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,160
# 22
08-16-2012, 04:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Only the Stealth portion of these powers were affected. If you were using Ambush for the damage bonus, that will remain completely intact and working the same as it did before.
Except, as fluffytargcream said, (except in my case it's the opposite) I'm using Stealth Module to supplement my Ambush stealth-wise, so I can ACTUALLY sneak past all those Gorn, Orions, Borg, or whatever throughout STO late-game, and deliver the deadly blow I need to deliver. Since I'm using a KDF tactical, I -could- downgrade my gear from KHG11 to the Hirogen stealth armor, but what's the point? Say goodbye to ground PvE, Kihlass...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffytargcream View Post
Ya basically this^^
Too many opponents saw right thru the Stealth Module already and you NEEDED the Ambush to compensate since putting points into skills gave such tiny boost.
Ya, this basically will take the Operative kit of the choice and be put next to the Grenade sachel on the useless kits shelf.
I was actually using the opposite as stated above. Nonetheless, now I have to switch to another kit entirely, dropping Lunge (love that thing, gives an extra exploit attack vs Borg, but not available in the new optimal kit) and Stealth Module (ok, so that's useless when not used for an assassination, but still... there's the assassination part! )

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkollins View Post
You guys need to learn to use a tactical officer before qqing
I'm just going to go pretend you didn't just say that

I repeatedly destroy 2-4 of the saboteurs in incursion using that tactic, as well as the first 3 worker drones in IGE. Not anymore, because somebody decided that PvP balancing should be carried off to PvE. Just throw in separated changes already in the form of PvP debuffs or something!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
And I don't pretend to understand them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,160
# 23
08-16-2012, 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerritourug View Post
When something is dame correctly, it should be admitted: and this was a good move.

Double cloaking was destroying even more the ground PVP.

Thank you for fix it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shailat View Post
I'm Glad to see Ground getting much needed changes but there are still some that will need to be looked into....
  • Cloak-nading [as us ground pvpers call it] (missing grenade circle for the victim) is still not fixed with those stacking changes and still needs a fix
  • Covert is still pushing the cloak past the normal threshold so you basely have perfect cloak
Quote:
Originally Posted by suuperduude View Post
This is a step in the right direction to fixing PvP. Good job.
As I posted above, PvP balance should NEVER affect PvE balance unless both are suffering from the issue. THEY. ARE. NOT!!!!!!!
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Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
And I don't pretend to understand them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,160
# 24
08-16-2012, 04:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexus2251 View Post
This change will actually make starbase incursion so much harder now, tbh I'm not sure why balancing for pvp sake is worthwhile, when its already pretty clear pvp is worthless atm.
I don't mind PvP balancing until it starts hitting my PvE tactics from every direction.

Talk about multiposting... that multiquote thingy isn't working right, or I'd have thrown this out in a single post.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
And I don't pretend to understand them.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 425
# 25
08-16-2012, 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalolorn View Post
As I posted above, PvP balance should NEVER affect PvE balance unless both are suffering from the issue. THEY. ARE. NOT!!!!!!!
It would be FANTASTIC if STO/PWE/Cryptic would do a little something that is done in, as Dan Stahl put it, "the 8-year incumbent with a global subscription player base", and have PVP equipment and PVE equipment separate. It just seems so "logical". Any serious PVPer in aforementioned game wouldn't be caught dead in a PVP match wearing PVE gear, and wearing PVP gear to do PVE is just a waste. If PWE/Cryptic are serious about getting PVP in STO then they may want to take a closer look at how a game that merges PVP and PVE so (relatively) seamlessly is so successful at it.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 367
# 26
08-16-2012, 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Have you tried fighting Gorn at L10, when they drop what are effectively completely invincible Aceton Assimilators?

It is the diametric opposite of fun.
Since when Acetons are invincible? HYT I photons are one-shooting them for me, and I'm playing on elite.

Just please, please don't tell me that you were trying to kill them with energy weapons and never tried to use torpedoes or mines.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,136
# 27
08-16-2012, 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchngc View Post
It would be FANTASTIC if STO/PWE/Cryptic would do a little something that is done in, as Dan Stahl put it, "the 8-year incumbent with a global subscription player base", and have PVP equipment and PVE equipment separate. It just seems so "logical". Any serious PVPer in aforementioned game wouldn't be caught dead in a PVP match wearing PVE gear, and wearing PVP gear to do PVE is just a waste. If PWE/Cryptic are serious about getting PVP in STO then they may want to take a closer look at how a game that merges PVP and PVE so (relatively) seamlessly is so successful at it.
Umm, NO.
If PvE was as balanced as you think then PVP wouldn't be so unbalanced, as AI would simply be emulating a 'dumb' live player. The fundamental problem as I see it is the devs appear to be making gear and balancing the AI reaction to it, THEN when 2 live players use that gear all the weaknesses an OP'ness becomes blindingly visible. This approach is bass-ackwards, balancing should be done FIRST at the PVP level then balance the AI reaction (PvE) last.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 425
# 28
08-16-2012, 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathos1978 View Post
Since when Acetons are invincible? HYT I photons are one-shooting them for me, and I'm playing on elite.

Just please, please don't tell me that you were trying to kill them with energy weapons and never tried to use torpedoes or mines.
Nope, I used Torpedoes. (No HYT for me though) Took 3 hits to destroy them, but the time it is destroyed, the Gorn ship has dropped another.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,388
# 29
08-16-2012, 10:23 AM
The way that critters interact with Stealth is a confusing mechanic that we generally hide from players for simplicity's sake. Suffice it to say, they use a different stat than players when it comes to Perception.

The Stealth changes above affect only the Perception of players. All Stealth values that affect NPC critters should have remained unchanged, allowing the stacking tactics that were previously used to still be viable.

If I'm wrong, I'd like to hear how it was verified. These changes should be on Tribble and I'd welcome testing experience.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 30
08-16-2012, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalolorn View Post

I repeatedly destroy 2-4 of the saboteurs in incursion using that tactic, as well as the first 3 worker drones in IGE. Not anymore, because somebody decided that PvP balancing should be carried off to PvE. Just throw in separated changes already in the form of PvP debuffs or something!

I can kill 2 maybe 3 of 4 saboteurs using only the standard cloak without the ambush or omega bonus if my team dont kill them first. You dont need that bonus to by pass the npcs.

Even if you're not using cloak there are others ways to kills this saboteurs in second phase, jump boxes, wait to someone run first to get the aggro, use the survivality of the maco set, etc.

This stacking values in stealth were killing ground PvP by the simple fact that one tactical officer could sneak to your back and one-shot you and you couldn't do absolutely nothing to avoid it. Now, the stealth continue to exist in ground PvP but now you can use your perception skills to see when they get close.

Sorry for the bad english, is not my native language
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com

Last edited by mrkollins; 08-16-2012 at 01:22 PM.
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