Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 111
08-13-2012, 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthiasuicide View Post
Although simply taking off Tac Teams Shield distribution would bring escorts back to what they should be, a Glass Cannon.

Whats the point in having 4 side sto your shields when a click of a Ensign level skill treats all 4 side slike 1 big pool?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostusthorn View Post
It would fix the escort somewhat yes. However cruisers would take a big hit by that in PvP. They can already not turn fast fast enough to escapes a escorts wrath on a shield facing. Removing the transfer from the tac team would be a nail in a coffin.
Escorts would be squishy. Science would be dead even quicker. Cruisers MIGHT survive a couple seconds if they maxed out EPS and spammed shield distribution, but ... not much longer.
Same as for all the low-tier sci- and eng-heals, TT is nearly mandatory for every class of ship, and nerfing it would hurt all of them.

Nerfing Escort shields would make them too squishy for both PvP and solo-content, so that's a no-go, too.

Options are:
-completly rework the BOff-system ('don't see that happen anytime soon)
-make encounters that actually need tanks, CC and teamwork (possible for next season, but would make the game too hard for a lot of people)
-dumb down the game so far that choice is no longer an issue and skill even less (can be done at any time, would make the game too boring for a lot of people)
Basically: whatever they do, they piss off SOMEONE. Doing nothing seems easiest, to be honest ...
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 338
# 112
08-13-2012, 10:15 PM
Then forget cruisers and make more escort options and more carriers so thiers a choice. lol.
So they released the armitage as the perfect mix....sigh.

Basically you can fly whatever you want and have fun. but the fact is everything can be done better in all 3 carrers in an escort. and thats really too bad.

Only ships that really matter other then a carrier are ones that have good Tac consoles and Tac Boff slots/Uni slots.

Klink side they seem to put a proper mix in. Fed side, Guess that will change when the Sovie Refit hits. But that means there will only really be one cruiser on fed side with a proper bite in this DPS arena.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,839
# 113
08-14-2012, 02:20 AM
I would be already happy if cruisers would get a bit higher Tactical BO stations, so they could be a bit less passive in battle.
(Instead of having a Lt Tac, giving it a Lt. Cmdr. Tac station, for instance)

Additionally Cruisers could get a small maneuverability Buff like 2-4 degrees more per second.

These small changes would make Cruiser somehow more active, without making them overpowered IMO, AND it would be a lot more fun to fly them.

On a personal note,
i find it really sad that a Star Trek game favours small dogfighting ships, instead of the big powerful and majestic ships we all saw in the various series and movies.
I mean there are more than enough Sci Fi universes featuring dogfights and small spaceships zipping around. I would like the biggest (and only) current Star Trek game feature big and powerful Cruisers.
I don't care if some devs like escorts more than cruisers, this is a Star Trek game (a Cruiser centered universe).
It is not cryptics original work, cryptic should tread it like that.
(if they would want escorts to be the most powerful ships around they should have made up their own IP)

Live long and prosper.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
T6 Guardian Class design / A 25th century Ambassador refit
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,540
# 114
08-14-2012, 03:09 AM
Excelsior has 8 turn and a Lt.com Tac station.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 28
# 115
08-14-2012, 04:55 AM
IMO the main problem is, that eng. consoles -and that is the part most cruisers focus in - are close to useless. I only use them as slots for universal consoles.

-> improve engineer consoles (e.g simply (at least) double the energy bonus given by any eng. console, the +4 at mkXII purple is a joke) and most problems with crusiers will be solved...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 116
08-14-2012, 05:01 AM
SIF consoles are lovely, armour/alloys as well. EPS is always handy. Actually no console slot is "trash".
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,750
# 117
08-14-2012, 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
I would be already happy if cruisers would get a bit higher Tactical BO stations, so they could be a bit less passive in battle.
(Instead of having a Lt Tac, giving it a Lt. Cmdr. Tac station, for instance)

Additionally Cruisers could get a small maneuverability Buff like 2-4 degrees more per second.

These small changes would make Cruiser somehow more active, without making them overpowered IMO, AND it would be a lot more fun to fly them.

On a personal note,
i find it really sad that a Star Trek game favours small dogfighting ships, instead of the big powerful and majestic ships we all saw in the various series and movies.
I mean there are more than enough Sci Fi universes featuring dogfights and small spaceships zipping around. I would like the biggest (and only) current Star Trek game feature big and powerful Cruisers.
I don't care if some devs like escorts more than cruisers, this is a Star Trek game (a Cruiser centered universe).
It is not cryptics original work, cryptic should tread it like that.
(if they would want escorts to be the most powerful ships around they should have made up their own IP)

Live long and prosper.
You are right. It IS Star Trek, remember the last big war the feds fought? Where their big cruisers were basically shredded by small nimble dedicated warships? Where for all their might they needed the KDF and RSE fleets, and THEIR dedicated warships to delay defeat?

Lets talk Meta, not everyone likes to pilot the big bulky space whales. Heck, the best cruiser builds don't actually fly like space whales AND do decent damage! Wonder what their secret is? Perhaps cruiser pilots should look up the "secret" builds right here on these very forums instead of simply asking to be game be made even more loltastic for them? Just a thought.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,285
# 118
08-17-2012, 07:35 PM
Their are many smaller problems that all added up create the larger (escorts best in pve) problem that could be fixed without overhauling the entire system.

1) increase ship total HP while also lowering amounts healed and resists. This would apply to shields and hull.

2) balance pass on weapon types. Beam arrays perform much worse than they should because of how power drain mechanics work on them compared to cannons.

3) balance pass on boff abilities. Simply put the damage bonus of tac abilities are so much stronger than sci or eng boff abilities. Yes they do lack some of the extra effects but still the damage needs increased on many sci and eng abilities.

4) evaluate and change how tac abilities scale. Nearly everything in this game scales in a linear fashion and most bonuses add to each other. However, tac abilities manage to bypass this increasing their effectiveness. This is the no 1 issue in my eyes and I will elaborate using pretend numbers so don't burn me on those.

Attack Pattern Beta: This decreases an enemies hull resistance, typically into the negative in PvE. Lets say for example it decreases it by 30%. At the same time you use cannon rapid fire which increases your cannon damage by say 30%. But these are not additive they are multiplicative and your damage actually increases by 69%. By contrast Gravity Well simply deals it's damage, Directed Energy Modulation simply deals it's damage, etc. The more tac ablities you stack on one another the more effective they become (weapon buff + attack pattern) whereas the majority of sci/eng abilities do not have this synergy.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 119
08-17-2012, 08:27 PM
The problem with escorts is the ridiculous amount of damage they do coupled with the tac team shield balance ability AND omega attack ridiculous bonuses.

Science nor engineering have anything remotely close to this. To make it worse, tactical consoles stack since they are % based.. most engineering and science consoles are not so they get diminished returns.


And, while tactical consoles need only slot for the damage type they use, science and engineering have to pick and choose which one stat each they can really boost hard...out of four+ critical ones the ship needs to survive. Shields? Armor? Resists? Heals?

To make matters even worse, the escorts get access to the remove-effect heals with the ensign and Lt slots so even a cmdr rank science attack or engineering attack is 'removed' by using an ensign ability.

overall escorts are the focus of this game: dps. Its what the devs are gearing the game for and catering to the direct damage portion of the game. Back before F2P a science ship was deadly if spec'd right. A cruiser was ungodly hard to kill if spec'd right. Today both sci and engineer ships have no real role or niche. Its been all replaced and focused to damage via guns.

Its just bad, bad game design. I would be ashamed to have my name in the credits of this game really.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,769
# 120
08-17-2012, 09:03 PM
Escorts tank well in PvE because the NPCs we fight do not bring a deadly challenge to the PvE side of the game unless they designed to be like a boss or near boss level NPC. Much like Champions the minion level NPC is only deadly if it has numbers or a debuff gimmick or both it can bring to combat.
In PvP I only see well designed and/or well played escorts survive and tank like cruisers.
In PvP the well played Cruiser still tanks better than any escort, often taking five or more focus firong escorts to kill it. If it dies at all.

The fix to making the Cruiser a better DPS ship is not nerfing the escort.
Frankly PvE just needs to be tougher and smarter. Relying on more than just raw DPS to kill the player or raw DPS to win the mission.
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