Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,948
# 11
08-18-2012, 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
Are you using the old shield pen numbers? Not sure I can get my damage that low even if I strip off all my damage boosts. Your calculations look wrong to me.

A MACO shield still means a Transphasics has just over 40% Bleedthough.

EDIT:
I am going pop in game and test out Transphasics x2 High yields to see if I am wrong. Will post damage here, could you post your Quantum damage hull numbers?
Yes, I did. I am going to go get my calculator and visit stowiki.org so I can show you how much damage really gets through to the hull with transphasics.
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Originally Posted by askray View Post
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Originally Posted by voporak View Post
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 12
08-18-2012, 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
I don't think he's arguing that two loadouts of the same rank (i.e. standard phasics/quantums or HY phasics/HY quantums) are in favor of quantums when it comes to bleed. Rather it's that the utility of phasics against bare hull is weak compared to quantums.
I agree that against bare hull quantums win in theory but in practices by the time shields have gone down Transphasics have already done massive damage to hull. I just tested twice and got around 14,000 Bleedthough with x2 High Yield Transphasics with shields up.

By the time shields go down quantums have a long way to go to catch to what the Transphasics have already done and the Transphasics are still doing damage.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,948
# 13
08-18-2012, 07:41 AM
Here are my findings:

This is for a standard Mk xii transphasic torpedo. These numbers are for the DPV

If it goes to the hull:
Unbuffed: 2155
THY l: 3706.6
THY ll: 4245.4
THY lll: 4784.1

Normal shield - Resilient shield

Unbuffed: 991.3 - 926.7
THY l: 1705 - 1593.8
THY ll: 1952.9 - 1825.5
THY lll: 2200.7 - 2057.7

That is how much damage you are really scoring through shields (using a standard mk xii torpedo). Here is what I have for Quantum torpedo, standard mk xii (these are the DPV):

If it goes to the hull:
Unbuffed: 3313
THY l: 7354.9
THY ll: 8547.5
THY lll: 9766.7

Normal shield - Resilient shield

Unbuffed: 331.3 - 165.65
THY l: 735.5 - 367.7
THY ll: 854.8 - 427.4
THY lll: 976.7 - 488.3

My followup statement will be posted farther down somewhere in the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by askray View Post
YAY I'M EVOLVED! *drools on his chin*
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
Welcome to the STO forums, where the evolutionary clock ticks backwards.

Last edited by voporak; 08-18-2012 at 07:59 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 14
08-18-2012, 07:49 AM
While you're punching in numbers, I'll already spoil the results:

If you're shooting at paper-mache, PvE-trash or PvP-noobs, then yes, BO+Quantum works like a charm. Big numbers, and **BOOOOOM**
If you're shooting at something more durable though, like Tac Cubes, STF Bosses or skilled PvPers ... well, then they'll soak up your BO+Quantum combo, then laugh while your power levels are drained to nothing and their shields barely scratched.

BO+Quantum combo means you're optimizing for trash kills.
Transphasics optimize for sustained hull dps on tough target ... or: targets where it actually counts.

But some people like seeing huge numbers on insignificant targets, some day someone will be able to explain to me why that is. Probably.

Edit: NOOOOES! Too slow
Edit2: Just in case - 'not saying that going for transphasics is ideal - it's just a less bad idea than people think it is.

Last edited by flekh; 08-18-2012 at 07:56 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 15
08-18-2012, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
Here are my findings:

This is for a standard Mk xii transphasic torpedo. These numbers are for the DPV

Normal shield - Resilient shield

Unbuffed: 991.3 - 926.7
THY l: 1705 - 1593.8
THY ll: 1952.9 - 1825.5
THY lll: 2200.7 - 2057.7

That is how much damage you are really scoring through shields. And which level of THY are you using? I'll be back in a few minutes, I'm going to find the penetration of quantum torpdoes just for comparison.
Not to keen on the way you say really scoring. The numbers I gave are real numbers from shooting NPC's and players. As long as your numbers above are per torpedo that matches what I see in game. 2200.7 x4 or x8 if two of them = 17,605.6. I used THY lllx2 instread of BOIII with THYIII. My torpedo is MK XII DMGx3 but DMG doesn?t work with torp skills.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,948
# 16
08-18-2012, 08:07 AM
I edited to my chart up above quanum bleedthrough and to-the-hull damage for both. Now, on the face of it you say, "Transphasics do more to the hull through shields, leading to better damage over time." That is true, but consider that is going thorugh the shields. And if it's always going to the shields that means you haven't taken down their shields. So the other person can just be popping hull repairs and negate the effects of the extra penetration. So ideally you should be taking down their shields, and once you do that transphasic bleedthrough doesn't matter, and it ends up being the weakest torpedo. However, if you use quantum then when you take down their shields and pop a quantum to the hull, it makes up for all the lost bleedthrough. And using THY with quantum to the hull creates a staggering amount of damage. So really my point is if you aren't taking down their shields fast transphasics might be a better choice. But then, the other person can just use a hull repair. And if you are getting their shields (which I really hope you are) then quantums are the way to go because they cause wreckage to the exposed hull.

EDIT: Be gald we're debating this like normal people and not rage trolling on each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by askray View Post
YAY I'M EVOLVED! *drools on his chin*
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
Welcome to the STO forums, where the evolutionary clock ticks backwards.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,948
# 17
08-18-2012, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
Not to keen on the way you say really scoring. The numbers I gave are real numbers from shooting NPC's and players. As long as your numbers above are per torpedo that matches what I see in game. 2200.7 x4 or x8 if two of them = 17,605.6. I used THY lllx2 instread of BOIII with THYIII. My torpedo is MK XII DMGx3 but DMG doesn?t work with torp skills.
The numbers there are for if all the torpdoes hit. Which is as it should be, hopefully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by askray View Post
YAY I'M EVOLVED! *drools on his chin*
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
Welcome to the STO forums, where the evolutionary clock ticks backwards.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 18
08-18-2012, 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
And using THY with quantum to the hull creates a staggering amount of damage. So really my point is if you aren't taking down their shields fast transphasics might be a better choice. But then, the other person can just use a hull repair. And if you are getting their shields (which I really hope you are) then quantums are the way to go because they cause wreckage to the exposed hull.
I pay zero attention to shields my whole build is based around shield penetration and killing targets with shields up. Anyway done my quick testing just striped off all my damage boosting items and was a little surprised by the results. The damage boosts must be way bigger then I realized.

My target took 3317 hull damage for transphasics THY III with no damage boost with shields up. A pretty drastic trop compared to the 7000 I normally get.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,948
# 19
08-18-2012, 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
I pay zero attention to shields my whole build is based around shield penetration and killing targets with shields up. Anyway done my quick testing just striped off all my damage boosting items and was a little surprised by the results. The damage boosts must be way bigger then I realized.

My target took 3317 hull damage for transphasics THY III with no damage boost with shields up. A pretty drastic trop compared to the 7000 I normally get.
Honestly I've never heard of a built designed to kill a target with the shields up. The only way is to take off your consoles boosting energy weapon power and replace them with torpedo consoles. But you should always have all the tactical consoles focused on your energy type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by askray View Post
YAY I'M EVOLVED! *drools on his chin*
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
Welcome to the STO forums, where the evolutionary clock ticks backwards.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 20
08-18-2012, 09:15 AM
My setup is a projectile build with zero energy weapons. That way I can run at 125shield power and dump the rest in Aux. It seems to be the only way I can kill anything. Been trying energy builds the past few days but could barely kill anything in PvP.

EDIT; I did try 122 weapon and 122 shield and a mix of energy and torps but again it failed to work.
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