Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 31
08-18-2012, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
Sadly you are incorrect.


Photon torpedo will do more hull damage through shield than transphasics. Why?

They have higher base damage, much faster refire rate -and- a much, MUCH higher damage multiplier in torpedo boff abilities.

Transphasics will never be viable until they have higher shield penetration. Sadly, if that happens, shields become irrelevant and everything fubars.


Transphasics need to have their special ability changed.
Ouch, that hurts to read.

Normal shields have a bleedthrough of 10%.
Transphasics penetrate these at 46%.
Transphasics deal about 67% of quantums per hit.
Rate of fire gets taken care of by DOffs, they are equal for all practical purposes.
-> Transphasics deal THREE TIMES the damage through shield than Quantums, which come in second.

For Resilient Shields, this looks even more bleak, with Transphasics coming in at nearly SIX times the dps.

HYT scales 1.3 times better with Quantums/Photons than Transphasics, but that still doesn't close the gap while shields are still up, with Transphasics dealing more than twice the damage, 4.5 times against resilient shields.

Edit: as we're at it ... I can actually attest that this works, at least versus escorts/raptors/BoPs and some Sci. 'Been on the receiving end of it a couple times, and the bleedthrough slowly kills you.
Edit2: f'ed up the HYT-mods, changed that part to reflect correct values.

Last edited by flekh; 08-19-2012 at 06:59 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 874
# 32
08-18-2012, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
You don't use energy weapons?
That is correct I no longer use energy weapons. I used to use a single energy turret in the rear that has now been replaced by the 180" arc quantum torpdeo. I found in both PvE and PvP I kill faster without energy weapons. Every so often I go back to trying energy weapons but it never lasts. I spent last Friday & Saturday trying energy weapons gave up and when back to projectile.

EDIT: It should be stated I fly cruisers, I am not saying Escorts should abandon energy weapons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
Sadly you are incorrect.


Photon torpedo will do more hull damage through shield than transphasics. Why?

They have higher base damage, much faster refire rate -and- a much, MUCH higher damage multiplier in torpedo boff abilities.

Transphasics will never be viable until they have higher shield penetration. Sadly, if that happens, shields become irrelevant and everything fubars.


Transphasics need to have their special ability changed.
He is not incorrect. Photons do far less damage then Transphasics more so if you speed up Transphasics to fire as fast as Photons. I find Photons are the worst torpedoes to use as nearly always Transphasics or quantum both beat out Photons.

Last edited by pottsey5g; 08-18-2012 at 03:37 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 33
08-18-2012, 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
BOff ability modifiers work for both types of torps, the same way.
Nope:

http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Torpedo:_High_Yield

Quote:
Upgrades your next torpedo attack.
Deals heavy damage against a single target.
Fires 4 Torpedoes, each dealing 55.5% of normal damage, (total 222% of normal), for Chroniton, and Transphasic Torpedoes.
Fires 4 Torpedoes, each dealing 74.2% of normal damage, (total 296.8% of normal), for Photon Torpedoes.
Fires 4 Torpedoes, each dealing 73.7% of normal damage, (total 294.8% of normal), for Quantum Torpedoes.

Fires a Destructible Torpedo dealing 400% normal damage for Plasma Torpedoes.
Fires a Destructible Torpedo dealing 162.5% of normal damage and generating a disabling 1KM diameter rift for between 2.4 and 7.2 seconds for Ticobalt Torpedoes.
Also bear in mind that photons are just under a third more powerful than phasics in terms of base damage, meaning crits will scale at a lower rate (a phasic crit is about on par with the base damage of a regular photon).

Last edited by shimmerless; 08-18-2012 at 11:03 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 989
# 34
08-18-2012, 11:27 PM
post nuked by poster.

Last edited by lordfuzun; 08-19-2012 at 12:02 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 874
# 35
08-19-2012, 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
Nope:

http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Torpedo:_High_Yield



Also bear in mind that photons are just under a third more powerful than phasics in terms of base damage, meaning crits will scale at a lower rate (a phasic crit is about on par with the base damage of a regular photon).
That?s interesting. My Quantum and Transphasic are about the same damage due to my setup. Here are my rushed results.

Transphasic base, 4690.1
Transphasic Spread III, 1976.6
Transphasic High Yield III, 2590.3

Quantum base, 4625.6
Quantum Spread III, 2521
Quantum High Yeild III, 3409
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,324
# 36
08-19-2012, 04:02 AM
I agree that transphasics should have a different special ability. Such as a shield healing preventer, for example.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 103
# 37
08-19-2012, 04:22 AM
Did a capture and hold and there was a guy dealing a good amount of damage through shields with transphasic i noticed it and put a monotanium in my cruiser, i feel much better and the transphasic damage just no longer afected me.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,503
# 38
08-19-2012, 05:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
While you're punching in numbers, I'll already spoil the results:

If you're shooting at paper-mache, PvE-trash or PvP-noobs, then yes, BO+Quantum works like a charm. Big numbers, and **BOOOOOM**
If you're shooting at something more durable though, like Tac Cubes, STF Bosses or skilled PvPers ... well, then they'll soak up your BO+Quantum combo, then laugh while your power levels are drained to nothing and their shields barely scratched.

BO+Quantum combo means you're optimizing for trash kills.
Transphasics optimize for sustained hull dps on tough target ... or: targets where it actually counts.

But some people like seeing huge numbers on insignificant targets, some day someone will be able to explain to me why that is. Probably.

Edit: NOOOOES! Too slow
Edit2: Just in case - 'not saying that going for transphasics is ideal - it's just a less bad idea than people think it is.
You're doing it wrong. Very sadly wrong. The only guy worse so far was Mr DPV guy. Granted BO3 in pve seems sorta lulz, but if you can't get the shields down on stf bosses in very short order there's some other issue. Or are you now going to say you didn't mean that? Sorta curious on that.

And if you in particular have some sort of set up where you can't get past a players shields in PVP well I guess that's YOUR problem. Stop saying everyone else shares your fail.

"laugh while your power levels are drained to zero"....Do you even play STO?

"BO+Quantum combo means you're optimizing for trash kills.
Transphasics optimize for sustained hull dps on tough target ... or: targets where it actually counts."


And what is this crap? If you're going to make **** up, make up some good ****! Some people just like saying stuff. Someday someone will explain to me why that is.

And before you nerd rage into a frenzy. You're reasoning is flawed. You've simply created situations where your solution appears to be the only solution. If you'd like to propose an argument, go ahead. You haven't yet.

Cheers and happy flying!
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 247
# 39
08-19-2012, 06:21 AM
To toss in a few cents, recently I've been doing stfs with a transphasic torpedo armed boat, and when buffed, the cluster torpedo's damage is so insanely high that I can keep up with my team in terms of dps. If I pull aggro, I can expect to keep it for quite a while.

I think they may be more effective than they appear, but still less effective than the full cannon build.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 40
08-19-2012, 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
You're doing it wrong. Very sadly wrong. The only guy worse so far was Mr DPV guy. Granted BO3 in pve seems sorta lulz, but if you can't get the shields down on stf bosses in very short order there's some other issue. Or are you now going to say you didn't mean that? Sorta curious on that.

And if you in particular have some sort of set up where you can't get past a players shields in PVP well I guess that's YOUR problem. Stop saying everyone else shares your fail.

"laugh while your power levels are drained to zero"....Do you even play STO?

"BO+Quantum combo means you're optimizing for trash kills.
Transphasics optimize for sustained hull dps on tough target ... or: targets where it actually counts."


And what is this crap? If you're going to make **** up, make up some good ****! Some people just like saying stuff. Someday someone will explain to me why that is.

And before you nerd rage into a frenzy. You're reasoning is flawed. You've simply created situations where your solution appears to be the only solution. If you'd like to propose an argument, go ahead. You haven't yet.

Cheers and happy flying!
'Didn't say you can't get the shields down on STF bosses quickly. A good group can, just fine. The same group will burn through the hull even faster though, so that argument goes both ways.
That's a general problem with the PvE in this game, it's trivial for a good group and nearly impossible for a very bad one.

If you're running with some Sci-heavy ships specialzied for draining shield, then shields are a total non-issue, I'll give you that - that's one of the reasons I said that transphasics weren't optimal, just less bad than people make them out to be. And also why I usually pack Quantums instead.
For a more typical group (one lacking a drain-ship, as these are actually quite rare), shields are indeed an issue though, and you'll be shooting at shields long enough that transphasics can make up for most of the damage they lose once shields are down: One hit to shields plus one hit to hull deals pretty much the same damage no matter what kind of torps you're using.
So, assuming that shields are up for half the fight, transphasics come in equal to quantums.


As for PvP: seriously, any decent cruiser, carrier or science ship can tank a BO3 + HYT combo just fine. These ships rarely if ever die in a 1v1 situation, it takes focussed fire to bring them down.
Against Escorts, yeah, that one's all about burst ... and about avoiding any situation where you're vulnerable to such a burst.
If you can bring down a zombie cruiser with BO + HYT ... well, then I'm indeed doing something wrong, please share how you do it. Really. These things are driving me mad.


Beam Overload is a very situational skill. All about burst. You have to punch through shields with that ONE attack and follow it up with a killing blow from torps. That works very well for squishy targets.
On non-squishies though, that single BO won't take out the complete shields. All you did is drain your weapon power by 50 for a single big number, and you're actually losing dps unless you popped a battery, in which case you still lost a cooldown.
That's why BO actually IS not just "sorta lolz", but a total waste in PvE - any other ability in that slot gives you a bigger increase in dps and is actually sustainable, while BO just gives you one big number and burns through consumeables.
It's a situational PvP skill. A gamble for a big burst combo, a gamble you need a setup for that loses you sustained dps, both from sacrificing a BOff-ability slot and from having to carry a DBB or BA instead of another DHC. And of course you need to be in a position to pull it off in the first place, which usually means cloak, which also limits BO's usefulness.
'Doesn't mean it's totally useless, I never said that - but it's not optimal either, unless you plan to farm noobs or want to two-shot Probes/Mirandas in PvE.


Side note: yeah, seems I've been a bit ragy yesterday, sleep fixed that. And aside from the f'-up with the HYT modifiers (which really doesn't change much though), my points actually stand. I'll just have a harder time explaining them now ... D'Oh!
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