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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,886
# 61
08-20-2012, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Big Bussiness hate giving away from next to nothing or free what it can charge lots of money for instead.


Money money money.
Giving away? No... The idea is for them to produce and sell the devices. But I suppose from a long term point of view you could think of it as far less expensive for the consumer.... As the manufacturer you can charge people to do maintenance on the devices to keep them running properly. But... third parties can do that too.
HAIL HYDRA!

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I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,753
# 62
08-20-2012, 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
Giving away? No... The idea is for them to produce and sell the devices. But I suppose from a long term point of view you could think of it as far less expensive for the consumer.... As the manufacturer you can charge people to do maintenance on the devices to keep them running properly. But... third parties can do that too.
My point was that money and the bussiness bottom line does more to stop helpful technology emerging into society more than anything else.

Look at a company called Changing Worlds Technologies. They invented a machine that breaks all organic matter back down into its base components, much like nature does over millions of years, but in a matter of days. Plus one of the byproducts is a possible gasoline alternative fuel source.
An excellent way to overcome our pollution landfill issues and possibly help solve an impending fuel crisis, yet this technology is years old now. Why is it not mainstream yet?
Becuase somebody somewhere would lose money or drastically have to change thier bussiness to accomidate it, and lose money. Like for example the Waste management and Oil companies?

It seems to me that humans allow the bottom line to get in the way far too often to our detriment for long term improvement.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,972
# 63
08-20-2012, 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
My point was that money and the bussiness bottom line does more to stop helpful technology emerging into society more than anything else.
Concentration of power has that kind of effect, yes.

However, the basic technology required to have a LENR device seems to be rather simple (an Italian upper high school teacher built one with his class), so "stopping it" is not an option. There are at least three different private companies working on LENR energy production, not counting NASA's unnamed partner.

So "stopping it" or even "delaying it" is certainly more expensive than most sane people would be willing to (or even able to) invest.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,886
# 64
08-20-2012, 07:22 PM
At this point the only way to "stop" it would be for the energy companies to convince government that it is unsafe.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 65
08-20-2012, 11:03 PM
they have been quite effective at stopping it by blocking patents. no company or concern wants to introduce a product without security and protection that it just won't be copied by everyone. as to cost...erm...ever look at how much energy concerns make in just 1 quarter? paying off some scientists and lawyers (considering most lawyers for major firms are on salary anyway) is pocket change. they have lobbyists already on salary or retainer in nearly every country.

it is inevitable however, they are just delaying. man portable power generation without fuels they control is anathema to them, so they'll do whatever it takes to block it for as long as possible. could be even worse, they could be working on their own designs, blocking any other patents until their version(s) are ready. then they can patent...and sit on them allowing no one to produce anything.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 680
# 66
08-20-2012, 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Some people, however, claim that Rossi is a fraud, so don't be too anxious. We'll have to wait and see.
Show me a generator unambiguously outputting more energy (combined electricity and thermal/whatever) over a given time span than could be plausibly obtained via chemical reactions from the material input into the generator PLUS any hidden chemical fuel that might be concealed inside it by anybody trying to "cheat". If it does that and does not create health hazards or ethical issues above what a fossil fuel generator of that output would create, then it would have my 100% endorsement. Rossi's refusal to let anybody look inside his "black box" or otherwise verify that there is not extra hidden fuel or other power source besides what he claims is what makes people call him a crank--any novel claims in science or engineering require verification in order to be any more trustworthy than pure speculation, and he appears reluctant to allow independent verification of his claims.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,972
# 67
08-21-2012, 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilchibiclari View Post
Show me a generator unambiguously outputting more energy (combined electricity and thermal/whatever) over a given time span than could be plausibly obtained via chemical reactions from the material input into the generator PLUS any hidden chemical fuel that might be concealed inside it by anybody trying to "cheat". If it does that and does not create health hazards or ethical issues above what a fossil fuel generator of that output would create, then it would have my 100% endorsement.
Well, it is not a generator, merely an experiment, but Professor Celani has this for you:
http://www.22passi.it/downloads/Cela...F17_Trasp3.pdf

Just science, not yet economically applicable, but it might show a possible way.

Quote:
Rossi's refusal to let anybody look inside his "black box" or otherwise verify that there is not extra hidden fuel or other power source besides what he claims is what makes people call him a crank--any novel claims in science or engineering require verification in order to be any more trustworthy than pure speculation, and he appears reluctant to allow independent verification of his claims.
Let us wait for September 10th. Until then, everything on either side of the debate is idle speculation.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 68
08-21-2012, 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Well, it is not a generator, merely an experiment, but Professor Celani has this for you:
http://www.22passi.it/downloads/Cela...F17_Trasp3.pdf

Just science, not yet economically applicable, but it might show a possible way.



Let us wait for September 10th. Until then, everything on either side of the debate is idle speculation.
About two weeks to go.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 69
08-22-2012, 09:18 AM
My brother just brought this weeks New Scientist magazine, apparently they are planning to holt production of new nuclear plants until they sort out the waste problem now. This may put a holt to the future plans of Ad Astra and there Vasimr plasma engine being powered by a nuclear reactor. Also would it make sense foe them to do further testing with a nuclear reactor to see how well etc the Vasimr performs with a nuclear power source?
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 70
08-23-2012, 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
My brother just brought this weeks New Scientist magazine, apparently they are planning to holt production of new nuclear plants until they sort out the waste problem now. This may put a holt to the future plans of Ad Astra and there Vasimr plasma engine being powered by a nuclear reactor. Also would it make sense foe them to do further testing with a nuclear reactor to see how well etc the Vasimr performs with a nuclear power source?
power source is electricity, that's all the engine needs, how it gets it doesn't matter (while it's still in testing) as long as power generation can keep up with demand. so concerns about how it will perform with different power generation schemes only matters if they can produce the power it needs. once outfitted or planned to be then lightweight power sources become more relevant.

a nuclear plant would not be used in any case...as they are rather large and not suited for space...much less launch a plant is a rather large complex of reactors and support equipment that covers a rather large area and going into the thousands, at a conservative guess tons.
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