Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13
# 1 Tactical Build Advice
08-22-2012, 06:01 PM
I've just started a Tactical character and wanted to come up with a rough build so I know where to allocate points as I level.

Can any experienced Tactical guys give me some advice on this build?

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...=tactileneck_0

I will be mostly PVE oriented but I wanted to try and keep it somewhat balanced so I could PVP on occasion as well. (The queue times I have experienced make me think it will be more PVE than PVP though)

I made some notes here about what I was thinking when I put it together:

Tactical: I put a smaller emphasis on the Projectiles mainly because the whole cannons thing still is a novelty to me
Engineering: I wasn't sure how much these skills affect power levels so I tried to keep them balanced where it seemed appropriate.
Science: I mainly just invested there for the resistances to status effects.
Ground: I might have spent too much here but I seem to get more ground missions than I would like and would hate for that to be my crutch.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated as I am still only level 14.

Thanks!

Last edited by doctortiki; 08-22-2012 at 06:04 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 37
# 2
08-22-2012, 10:14 PM
well, there's a lot of ways to go, but I'll give you some advice from my own tac captain experience at endgame...

#1 - your weapon skills are actually divided by projectile/energy - cannons are actually energy weapons, as are beams...projectiles are basically all the torpedoes - so your spec into energy weapons will affect all your primary weapons (unless you prefer a torpedo boat build)

#2 - in almost all cases, the vast majority of people will recommend that whatever skills you do choose, stick with no more than 6 points in the skill - the last 3 points in a skill offer a very miniscule amount of actual effect

#3 - for myself, it would take too long to post my personal skills, but they seem to work all right, and I'll give you a general layout - with my tac captain, I tended to put a lot of skills in the tac line - all the energy weapon options, accuracy, maneuvers, etc - the only thing I didn't invest in much is torpedoes, and this is why

when it comes to outfitting your ship, you will also find yourself generally picking a primary weapon type - energy or projectile (note - *most* people don't build torpedo boats, although they are out there - you'd have to ask one of them for how effective it tends to be) because there are tactical consoles that increase weapons damage - consoles for increasing your torps and your beams/cannons - but as there are a limited number of slots for consoles, lots of people tend to focus on their energy weapons as their primary weapon, and therefore focus all their console slots on buffing energy weapon dmg - since it's likely that your torps are already going to suffer somewhat from not getting console buffs, you might consider skipping on skill buffing them as well, and save those points for other areas

#4 - Engineering skills - you'll want a LOT of these, which may seem odd as a tac captain, but SOOO many of the engineering skills affect the overall survivability/power efficiency of EVERY SHIP YOU'RE IN - power may not seem all that important right now, but it makes a huge difference at endgame over sustained conflicts - I *highly* recommend sinking 6 points of skill into every skill that buffs power or power efficiency (warp core, energy weapon, shields, aux, etc), as well as hull strength, hull armor, shield strength, etc, etc

#5 - Science skills - my tac captain has very few of these, and most others I expect are similar - there are some base science skills that increase shield heals and such, and most captains take these, but all the other sci skills are primarily required for offensive sci skills which most of the sci community will tell you have been nerfed to lowest levels of hell - as such, many non-dedicated sci ship fliers take just the basic survivability sci skills (polarize hull and hazard emitters) and not worry about the rest - this is a great place to not have to put skill points if you want to hoard them for more effective, albeit more conventional , layouts

mind you, if you want to fly sci ships and use heavy sci-skills, you're more than welcome to do so - and if that's your intention, you should definitely invest far more heavily in those sci skills, as they will be vital to getting any real effect out of sci-boff skills and such - but it's a rather unconventional way to go, so just be warned

Ground - it's true, you could save a lot of points by not going much ground - but there is a LOT of ground content in the game, and it can be fun - especially for some of the more profitable fleet mark missions - I personally put points into every skill that becomes a tac captain trainable skill (i.e. any skill that reads "if you have 3 ranks or more in this skill, a tac captain can train x-skill - this allows you to train your own or other people's boffs in that skill, which can be handy) - I skip the armor skill, and the ground threat skill, and I think I put 6 points in almost everything else

that's my input before seeing any of your choices, hope it helps - I may come back later after having looked if anything specific strikes me
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 37
# 3
08-22-2012, 10:17 PM
actually, took a quick look at your skill layout, and just came up with a rather large scale idea - you'll note I mentioned earlier, putting more than 6 points into any skill ends up being unnecessary in most cases - try rebuilding your layout with 6 being the cap you put into any skill, and see how many more skill options that gives you

take those extra points, spend a little more (up to 6) in weapon performance, aux and armor, and fill out some of those ground skills if you like
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13
# 4 Revision 1
08-23-2012, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kermit1013 View Post
actually, took a quick look at your skill layout, and just came up with a rather large scale idea - you'll note I mentioned earlier, putting more than 6 points into any skill ends up being unnecessary in most cases - try rebuilding your layout with 6 being the cap you put into any skill, and see how many more skill options that gives you

take those extra points, spend a little more (up to 6) in weapon performance, aux and armor, and fill out some of those ground skills if you like
Thanks for all the suggestions! I have tried to work your ideas into this new build.

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...tactileneck1_0

Tactical: Not much changed here, spread the bonus for Energy/Projectile specialization
Engineering: Redistributed points here using your rule of 6
Science: Redistributed points here using your rule of 6
Ground: Oddly enough this did not change much.

Does this look more like what I should have as a rough goal? It seems pretty similar to what I had before, so perhaps I am missing something skill wise or is this solid enough?

Can anyone else confirm putting more than 6 points in a skill is always a waste, or are there exceptions for specialized tasks like Tactical Systems? Those were pretty much the only times I went to max a skill.

Thanks again for all the assistance
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 120
# 5
08-23-2012, 09:55 AM
if u want a good pvp pve build contact me in game to see u in action then we can talk about 'spec' and other stuff ""@wenom_lord" btw both of this build grant u a fight vs me under 30 sec or less with this 2x speec u are a too soft
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13
# 6
08-23-2012, 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wenom4 View Post
if u want a good pvp pve build contact me in game to see u in action then we can talk about 'spec' and other stuff ""@wenom_lord" btw both of this build grant u a fight vs me under 30 sec or less with this 2x speec u are a too soft
Well I'm just looking for advice here. As previously stated my character is level 14, so while you're offer to obliterate me is flattering, I don't see the point in that. I don't need to beat my head against a wall to know it will hurt. It doesn't mean I'm afraid to do it, just smart enough not to lol

I also will be heavier on the PVE side since the PVP queues have me waiting over an hour for a single game with only a few players (Also in my original post)

If you could provide some constructive feedback though that would be helpful..
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 7
08-23-2012, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctortiki View Post
If you could provide some constructive feedback though that would be helpful..
Your revised build doesn't look too bad.

The ground skills could use a little reworking to be optimised for a Tactical player's usual ground team role ("DPS", rather than "tank") - I'd opt for 9/9 in Weapon Proficiency and Combat Specialist. Special Forces and Advanced Tactics are worth at least 3 in each, and you really want at least 5 but preferably 6 in Squad Command (because that's the point at which it'll let you stack "Ambush" 3 times in a row whilst under the effects of "Tactical Initiative" - a major spike damage benefit) Ignore Willpower, Threat Control and Combat Armor (the latter seems odd, until you realise that Diminishing Returns means that endgame armors don't get much benefit from this skill) and throw any spare points into PS Generator. Grenades are situational - I know some players don't use them at all, but they're cheap to skill up and I find myself using them quite often, so I'd go for 6/9 or 9/9 here depending on how regularly you find yourself using them as a source of damage.

The "rule of 3/6/9" is usually a good rule of thumb to follow - basically, put 3 in skills that are situational/rarely used, 6 in skills that are always useful, and only take essential skills to 9. You can see the "return" given by each skillpoint worth of investment by looking at the values on the green/yellow/red slider in the build planner. There are some exceptions though, due to cooldown cut offs etc (like with Squad Command above)

Your Tactical space skills are spot-on. For your Engineering skills, I'd recommend taking Structural Integrity, Warp Core Performance and Efficiency to 9/9. The Engine/Aux/Weapon "Performance" skills are probably best left at 3/9, and only brought higher if you need an extra point or two (say to "cap" weapons power at 125), but Armor/Hull Plating and Shield Performance all get a good return up to 6/9 if you're looking for more survivability.

For your Science skills, you've slotted up the majorly useful ones already (Flow Capacitors is good to slot up if you use any power drains) but again I'd recommend taking Shield Systems to 9/9. And if you're sticking to PVE you won't really need Power Insulators or Inertial Dampeners, they're pretty much PVP-only. If you're venturing into PVP occasionally you could probably get by with a few points in each - though I'd probably choose 6 in Insulators and 3 in Dampeners rather than the other way around.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13
# 8
08-23-2012, 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
Your revised build doesn't look too bad.

Thanks a lot for the feedback! It's good to get some insight for the end game since I was not aware of some of those skills such as Ambush

I've updated the build and tried to work in your suggestions. How is this revision?

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...tileneck4_2047
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 9
08-23-2012, 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctortiki View Post
Thanks a lot for the feedback! It's good to get some insight for the end game since I was not aware of some of those skills such as Ambush

I've updated the build and tried to work in your suggestions. How is this revision?

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...tileneck4_2047

You could fly in that and be better than 90% of the PUG players I've seen in STFs
Tac, Ground and Science skills all look grand.

I've only got a few minor points concerning the Engineering skills:

You can get rid of any points in Subsystem Repair, it really does nothing worthwhile.

I've never bothered putting any points into the "Batteries" skill, as I never find myself using them for PVE... but that's a personal choice, some people find it useful because it does extend the duration of their buff quite noticeably.

The Aux Performance and Weapon Performance levels caught my eye too - there's nothing particularly wrong with not taking 3 or 6 in a skill, but opting for 3/9 in the performance skills adds a nice round number to that skill's energy pool - 5 energy. So just be careful that the extra point in Weapons isn't wasted by making you overshoot the "hard cap" of 125 Weapons Power [there are a few cases where this is a good thing, but it's basically to do with a bug that only applies to beam weapons]. If you're planning to use other means of raising your Weapons power (like running a few copies of EPTW) then you can add or reduce these skillpoints a little until you're hitting the exact power level you want.

Finally, Armor Reinforcements/Hull Plating.

Assuming that you have a decent BOFF power setup for whatever ship you're flying, then you shouldn't have much trouble taking too much damage unless you're fighting things like Elite Tac Cubes with their hyperpowerful Kinetic Damage Torpedos. So I'd lean slightly more towards increasing my Armor than Hull Plating... but realistically there's only going to be a few % points difference at higher levels with Neutronium or Monotanium Armor Consoles (with that darned "Diminishing Returns" kicking in again!)

A good question to ask yourself would be: are you planning to tank? (e.g fly a cruiser in PVE) If not, fine. But if so, it might be worth investing into Threat Control. In order to hold aggro reliably, Tanks should really have at least 6 points in this... but it'll add a little damage resistance as well, so you can reduce both Hull Plating and Armor Reinforcements to 3/9 if you're taking it.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 10
08-23-2012, 06:28 PM
Hey! Ok, I am a Tac Fed captain and I do mostly PVE so this may help you. I had a lis of what I did somewhere, but I can't find that right now.

Starship Batteries are pretty useless for the points. I would also not put points in subsystem repair because subsystems repair in 5 seconds without spending the points, there is just not bonus to get from the points.

Hull Plating and Armor Reinforcements should be full, it gives you better resists and you live longer. Same with weapon and shield performance, they are needed engine and Aux are not really.

Shield emitters and Shield systems are the only Science skills you need. The rest are useless for PVE.

Tac looks good and that really is a player by player choice. I chose not to use projectiles. I need to respect to move those points though.

Kyle
Delta Fleet Command
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