Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 41
08-23-2012, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
Assuming you're running at 125 power, no, adding a 4th DHC won't hurt your DPS. What it WILL do is lower your spike damage potential, because Torpedos give you more options versus Hull via both HYT (ST) and TS (AoE).

I'll just add my little anecdote.

In an Escort on ESTFs, I've switched from 3 DHCs + 1 Torp to 4 DHCs.

The DPS with this set up is higher than any other set up I've run (which includes 2 Torps + 2 DHCs and 3x Purple PWOs).

Part of that increased DPS just goes to the overall efficiency of the build - all of my consoles are 1 Energy type and not having Torps means I can squeeze in multiple Attack Pattern Betas.


On the other hand, even with this much better DPS - which I tend to notice against enemies like negh'var and cubes/elite cubes the most - the lower spike damage is apparent as maelwy5 has stated.

So while the consistent DPS is very high, doing something such as Guarding Kang or working both sides of KASE (1 ship, covering both sides) can be slowed down a touch (it is by no means hard with a Tac in Escort but it's definitely not as efficient as having 1 or 2 torp launchers for those circumstances).

Probe and Kang duty tend to bore me to tears, so I tend to avoid those unless no once else has a ship capable (rare).
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 608
# 42
08-23-2012, 11:10 AM
Nah, forget Kinetic damage, go pure energy weapon damage in both skill tree and weapons :3

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 43
08-23-2012, 11:16 AM
Right now I'm running 2DHC+2 Quantums myself, but I'm worried I'm suffering from placebo effect. It feels great against the Gates in KASE for example, but it feels pretty ****ty against Tac Cubes or on Kang defense duty. But it's all gut feeling, I didn't parse any combat logs yet. I really should to get this uncertainty out of my system
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 44
08-23-2012, 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcademaster View Post
I didn't parse any combat logs yet. I really should to get this uncertainty out of my system

It's really the only way to test for changes like this.

Last edited by ussultimatum; 08-23-2012 at 12:20 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 45
08-23-2012, 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcademaster View Post
Right now I'm running 2DHC+2 Quantums myself, but I'm worried I'm suffering from placebo effect. It feels great against the Gates in KASE for example, but it feels pretty ****ty against Tac Cubes or on Kang defense duty. But it's all gut feeling, I didn't parse any combat logs yet. I really should to get this uncertainty out of my system
Assuming no BOFF ability changes, I can probably guess that you'll find you're a bit better off versus structures and a bit slower versus shielded targets. (Donatra, for example. Her shield regenerates so quickly that she's better faced with cannons, no question)

4x DHC builds work by throwing raw energy damage at your target, which is good against both shields and hull. The builds with Torpedos can only compete in terms of single target damage by introducing DOFFs into the equation, and even then they'll find it hard to catch up with the DHC builds against targets with more than minimal shielding. But for AoE or Spike damage the torpedo builds wll certainly pull ahead.

And it's a balancing act too... as USSUltimatum has pointed out, if you drop the torps and are just focussing on ST damage then you can specialise your abilities better.

For example, if you're running 4xDHCs and cycling ABP3/APB2 and CRF2/CRF1 then you'll have far better damage over time versus single targets than someone running 2xDHCs/2xQuantums and cycling APB3, TS3, CSV1 and CRF1 - even allowing for whatever you're shooting at being unshielded, the first build would pull ahead versus single targets. But conversely, the best AoE spike damage you can do is going to be from a combination such as APB3 + CSV1 + TS3... so it really depends on whether you're going for Single Target damage ("Kill the Gateway!") or AoE damage ("Kill the Probes/BoPs/Raptors!") or a mixture of both.

Personally I went through a phase of trying 2x Photons and 2x DHC (with 2x Projectile DOFFs photons are technically still slightly better sustained DPS than Quantums), but the spike damage from Torpedo Spread and HYT went down too much to make it workable, so I've settled on 2x DHC + 2x Quantums for STFs (due to the Borg Proc and all the unshielded targets) and 3x DHC + 1x Quantum for general missions and Fleet raids.

(Note: if you have the Quad Cannon available feel free to use it in place of a DHC)

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]

Last edited by maelwy5; 08-23-2012 at 05:03 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 46
08-24-2012, 01:57 AM
With 2 Torps, is it still best to stack as many energy consoles as you can hold or does it become more profitable to throw a quantum chamber in there?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 47
08-24-2012, 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcademaster View Post
With 2 Torps, is it still best to stack as many energy consoles as you can hold or does it become more profitable to throw a quantum chamber in there?
Depends on your skills and what you're fighting.
It's really down to how much damage you can pump out from each source.

In my case it worked out at about a 50|50 split in inflicted damage between energy weapons (the 2x DHC and 3x Turrets) and Torpedos (the 2x Launchers + DOFFS) before skills... but factoring in CRF and TS made energy weapons pull ahead, so I went with a console split that was slightly in favour of energy weaponry: 2x Energytype Consoles and 1x Torpedo Console.

Equipment loadout also plays a minor role: if you're flying Klingonside, bear in mind that the Honor Guard equipment's 2-set bonus is effectively an extra Torpedo Console. The Omega Set's 2-set bonus is probably better if you're going all-DHCs as it will add to the effect of your Energy weapons. Fedside, the MACO 2-set bonus is a straight recharge buff that applies to all your recharge times including weapons (it's quite easy to see an impact on Torpedo Launchers, but it's basically undetectable for standard Cannons/Turrets. You can just about detect a few extra shots over time for DHCs).

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 108
# 48
08-24-2012, 04:08 PM
Well, I've seen seen over 16k critical hit dmg from my DHCs with all my buffs, thats on a naked hull. I am a Tactical captain so that immensely helps.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 49
08-24-2012, 06:26 PM
If you dump the Torps, dump the projectile character skills as well. Frees up points for something more useful.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 740
# 50
08-25-2012, 05:34 PM
I'm running 2 XII purple DHC fore, a single XI peng, and a single XII Qtorp. I've got three purple torp doffs slotted, and the Peng and Qtorp don't share cooldowns. It's pretty nice actually.
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