Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 573
# 331
08-10-2012, 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay View Post
Actually, they don't ignore the social issues, at least not in the lore (before everything got folded into the Academy lore quests). The novel Needs of the Many, plus the STO lore available, note that The Doctor (and the Soong Foundation I believe) went to court after Starfleet tried to take away his mobile emitter, with the case evolving into a class-action suit in favor of all sentient synthetics (to use a Mass Effect term).

The court ruled in favor, and worked with scientists to come up with a bunch of tests to determine when a hologram or android has become sentient (and thus deserving rights).

As for Data and positronic androids, true, Data is unique (at least as far a "Soong-type" androids are concerned), but he came back when his memories implanted in B-4 were retriggered. Needs of the Many has a whole chapter dedicated to that event.
Books are not canon. Besides, that isn't the social issue I was talking about.

I meant the ramifications of sentient holograms coming into general use (as opposed to one-of situations like Data).

It is especially an issue in an environment where eugenics are outlawed. How can artificial or augmented humans be illegal to create, but artificial designer holograms or androids be perfectly legal to create?

And what are the ramifications of entering significant numbers of such beings into the labor force? How are they powered? If they use standard dilithium based power sources, what does that do with respect to the dilithium supply, which is always implied to be at least somewhat limited?

There are scads of science fiction works exploring the pitfalls of such technology becoming widespread and a reason why Data was a one-of in canon (well, two-of including Lore).

There are other issues for writers too... I wouldn't be completely surprised if the whole Data/ B-4 thing was to allow the possibility for Data to end up more 'mortal', so that if they did do another series further in the future, they wouldn't have to explain either the lack of Data or why he no longer looks like Brent Spiner. And if they didn't have that in their minds, they should have.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,049
# 332
08-22-2012, 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
While you are correct I was more refrencing the fact that most cannon ships in Startrek aren't given class designations. In fact in generations lursor refers to the enterprise as a galaxy class battleship. And for the record I do not disagree with there being a battle ship I was just stating that using modern terminology as a refrence was a flawed approach.

I think that currently the odossy comes closest to being a battle ship but the curent limitation isn't really the officer lay out its the weapons. If there were a heavy beam bank or array equipable to only battleship class vessels then it would make more sence. But currently the big guns are only equipable or viable for the smaller ships.
I must concur wholeheartedly with this.

I want a true battlecruiser more than a battleship. I do alright with my Assault Cruiser it's survivable and does decent damage...and therein lies the problem.

She's an assault cruiser without the assault.

I'm saving dilithium for zen so I can buy the Regent. I won't use the Regent skin, but I will use the Wide Angle Quantum Torpedo Launcher, for the finishing power on broadside.

I would love to have even two Lt Tac slots at this point. That would allow me FAW, BO, TS, and HYT.

But the truth of the matter is that nothing would make my assault cruiser feel more like a boss starship, than a set of Beam Arrays (which due to the inherent characteristics of the class are the optimal weapons to use) that can actually crack another starship's proverbial skull in half.

I'm still relatively new to this game, but I got massacred by a bunch of escorts the other day, in seconds. I was told that when you have that much firepower coming at you there's nothing you can do. I suppose that's true, but it's demoralizing. I could neither tank nor do meaningful damage. And since the vast majority of the iconic designs in this series are cruisers there is something...wrong with that.

As I said I want a battlecruiser. I want decent tanking ability, decent maneuverability, and I want to heavy firepower. Right now the best cruisers have poor maneuverability, good tanking, and decent firepower. It's not gamebreaking if you have a cruiser that is actually a threat.

But I would forgo the ability to turn if my beams could do some real damage.

Never in the series did we see a Bird of Prey shred the shields of the Enterprise. And I understand they can in STO for balance purposes and that's cool. Just give me a way to answer, because in PvP there are many times when you can't kill them before they kill you. And I've never witnessed a nerfed Alpha. It seems to work just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
I do agree the proposed lay out isn't ideal.
what about

commander tac
ltc eng
lt eng
lt sci
ens sci

This gives you the added offensive abilitys you seek but retains the survivability you need.
I do still maintain however that untill there are better weapons oftions there really isn't much point in calling this a battleship.

As I have stated before in order for there to be a rue battleship there needs to be a useable big gun for somthing this slow. Like some kind of heavy beam array or single heavy cannons.
Again agreed. Heavy Beam Array. Bring it to parity. You can even leave the damage advantage to the Quad heavy cannon or the highest level Dual Heavy Cannon. But Beams need more power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
No I'm saying that a ship that cannot defend itself or it is a threat to enemy is useless. You took an escort build and put it on a imaginary slow big ship and hope it will work...well it won't. You can test it yourself (at least the tanking part) on current cruisers and see how long you will live.

Your problem is, that you constantly try to bend the system to your needs instead adapting to the system. With this attitude, you will never be happy.
Well admittedly the system itself is flawed in that regard. And there is no way to make everyone 100% happy. But better than this is possible.
Yes I support This

"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,002
# 333
08-22-2012, 09:31 PM
BTW, I must say that the Regent is perfectly capable of filling that Battleship role, to the point that I feel comfortable playing my engineer toon again. Sure, a ship like her, but with a Commander Tactical slot instead of a Commander Engineering would be nice, but it is no longer strictly needed.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,617
# 334
08-22-2012, 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind3 View Post
I must concur wholeheartedly with this.

I want a true battlecruiser more than a battleship. I do alright with my Assault Cruiser it's survivable and does decent damage...and therein lies the problem.

She's an assault cruiser without the assault.

I'm saving dilithium for zen so I can buy the Regent. I won't use the Regent skin, but I will use the Wide Angle Quantum Torpedo Launcher, for the finishing power on broadside.

I would love to have even two Lt Tac slots at this point. That would allow me FAW, BO, TS, and HYT.

But the truth of the matter is that nothing would make my assault cruiser feel more like a boss starship, than a set of Beam Arrays (which due to the inherent characteristics of the class are the optimal weapons to use) that can actually crack another starship's proverbial skull in half.

I'm still relatively new to this game, but I got massacred by a bunch of escorts the other day, in seconds. I was told that when you have that much firepower coming at you there's nothing you can do. I suppose that's true, but it's demoralizing. I could neither tank nor do meaningful damage. And since the vast majority of the iconic designs in this series are cruisers there is something...wrong with that.

As I said I want a battlecruiser. I want decent tanking ability, decent maneuverability, and I want to heavy firepower. Right now the best cruisers have poor maneuverability, good tanking, and decent firepower. It's not gamebreaking if you have a cruiser that is actually a threat.

But I would forgo the ability to turn if my beams could do some real damage.

Never in the series did we see a Bird of Prey shred the shields of the Enterprise. And I understand they can in STO for balance purposes and that's cool. Just give me a way to answer, because in PvP there are many times when you can't kill them before they kill you. And I've never witnessed a nerfed Alpha. It seems to work just fine.


Again agreed. Heavy Beam Array. Bring it to parity. You can even leave the damage advantage to the Quad heavy cannon or the highest level Dual Heavy Cannon. But Beams need more power.


Well admittedly the system itself is flawed in that regard. And there is no way to make everyone 100% happy. But better than this is possible.
I bought the regent but still find my oddy superior for damage dealing especialy with the wide angle torp equipped. Granted I'm a tac so I have access to more damage boosting powers. I also managed to get a fleet vorcha on my klingon now there is an escort cruiser if I ever saw one.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,049
# 335
08-25-2012, 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
I bought the regent but still find my oddy superior for damage dealing especialy with the wide angle torp equipped. Granted I'm a tac so I have access to more damage boosting powers. I also managed to get a fleet vorcha on my klingon now there is an escort cruiser if I ever saw one.
Well I'm an engineer so there is that balance.

I can't believe I'm posting on a Star Trek site when I find out that Neil Armstrong has died.

:salute
Yes I support This

"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
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