Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,251
# 1 Advice on the Bortasqu' Pack
08-27-2012, 01:26 AM
I never thought I'd say this, but I am considering buying the Bortasqu' pack. Is it worth it? I am buying it to give my Engineer a good tanking ship. I have my eye on the science version and thought buying the pack would also give me another two, plus the consoles.

I have looked through the forums and read the posts and threads and still not sure.

Is it really worth it? Or am I best off just buying the science Bortasqu'?
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 267
# 2
08-27-2012, 01:52 AM
I have the tac and war version.. The BoP that comes with the war version bugs out at times.. it just vanishes to God knows where and i have to recall it and wait for its cd to finish (5min CD). The disruptor auto cannon is a nice perk.. I use it at times to finish off a mob. Its a 2 min CD
Thing turns like a whale tho.. But I've got a beam-turret config so its not much of an issue.
I didn't get the science version cos I have the subspace jump console from the c-store raptor.

I now do STFs with it and it can hold its own pretty well. (note my ships not a tank build, its more dmg oriented)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 749
# 3
08-27-2012, 02:57 AM
Not worth it at all. It may be a good tanking ship at first look, but the serious lack of turn means your shield facings will die faster.

Personally, I use my SCI-TANK builds for my DSSV/Varanus for tanking. It beats out Cruisers in threat easily.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 267
# 4
08-27-2012, 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by burstdragon323 View Post
Not worth it at all. It may be a good tanking ship at first look, but the serious lack of turn means your shield facings will die faster.

Personally, I use my SCI-TANK builds for my DSSV/Varanus for tanking. It beats out Cruisers in threat easily.
That does happen quite frequently tho.. need to keep applying shield buffs to stay alive.. If on cd a borg heavy torp from a tac cube in stfs gets you down real quick
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 162
# 5
08-27-2012, 10:31 AM
Funny, I recently started thinking about the Bortasqu. Spent time on tribble today to test each one since all 3 versions are still free over there.

I'd say NO to the pack, Get the version you want and have fun. I bought all 3 Oddys seperately before and Stopped using the 3 Piece combo, Hell now I dont even use the ship. lol.

Love the animation of the Bird of Prey undocking. Snare is cool. Disruptor cannon is awesome. But IMO, taking 3 slots out of your setup is too much for the benefit. Really wish it was one console, or built in to the ship and make it a 9 Console.

I just purchased the Tac Bortasqu, That one fits my Klink, So not worth getting all 3. Get the one that fits you more.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,432
# 6
08-27-2012, 11:25 AM
The Bortas really doesn't get as much love as it really deserves. The Odyssey is just as terrible at turning, yet nobody seems to hark on it for that.

I bought the Bortas pack a couple months ago when we had a ship sale, and I personally really like it. For purely tanking purposes, the sci one is probably your best bet, because it has 2 sci slots, which means two field generators (a 5th Neutronium Alloy spot can be nice, but having more shields is really good too).

I'd personally recommend at least a rough BOFF set-up like this:

Cmdr Engineering: E-power to shields 1, RSP 1, Aux to dampeners 2, Aux to structural 3.
Lt Tac: TT 1, APD 1, or a weapon buff, like FAW 2, or CRF 1.
Lt Sci: TSS 1, HE 2.

Now here's where some variety comes in, depending on if you want more sci, or more engineering abilities:

Lt. Cmdr universal as engineering: E-power to shields 1, RSP 1, Engineering Team 3
Ensign universal as sci: Polarize Hull 1.

Lt. Cmdr universal as science: Polarize Hull 1, TSS 2, Sci Team 3 (or another sci ability, depending on what you want, like a Gravity Well 1)
Ensign Universal: Almost anything would work really.


About the consoles, they do have at least one advantage in that none of them share cooldown with each other, compared to the Chevron separation and Aquarius destroyer on the Odyssey. So you can use all three when you want, how you want.

The HoH'sus is good as extra annoyance damage, although it's not even close to what you can do, don't discount it either, because I've seen some pretty good hits from it, especially it's torpedoes after it's shot down a shield facing with CRF.

Subspace Snare isn't as useful in PvE as it is in PvP, although don't expect it to be very useful very often, since there are lots of ways to counter it. It can be useful in an STF if you need to move Borg-Ship A, to point B, in order to keep it away from...whatever it needs to stay away from. That said, it's a great combo with the next thing...

Disruptor Autocannon. This thing is mean, but it is affected by consoles, weapons power, your skills, any buffs you have up, etc. So it's best used in the hand of a tactical officer using Go Down Fighting and other tactical buffs like that. On the Klingon tac I do have, I can get each shot to over 6,000 damage EACH, if not even more.

That said, ship to ship, they are roughly equal. In a fight, with an equally skilled pilot and build in each ship, they'd pretty much be on a totally even ground.

I really don't recommend using the special consoles though, unless you intend on making a build that's useful around them, because that's up to 3 consoles you are having to give up all for those abilities.

My tactical Klingon has a 'toy build' on his tactical Bortas, with a whole slew of universal (mostly damage-dealing) consoles, but all at the cost of a lot of survivability. It's a mean ship, but it really can't sustain a fight.

My engineering Klingon though, in the engineering Bortas, is kind of the opposite, because I don't use any universal consoles, except Plasmonic Leech, and is one tough cookie to take down.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 178
# 7
08-27-2012, 01:01 PM
I have a friend whom flies a Bortasq war cruiser. We went up against him and two others, one in a raptor, and one in a BoP, him as the bait. We had three tacticals at once, myself flying a dreadnought with the Hakashin build, putting out around 100k burst damage. I uncloaked, opened up on him, as did the other two with me, on the same facing, yes his shields went down near instantly, and our sheer damage took him down too 92% hull, but that was it. We never got him below that, for the entire match.

A tougher ship I've never fought since. You want something that can tank? Very few can match her. I'm going to spec up a klingon engineer for one. The only issue is that she doesn't deal much firepower, but it's not difficult to even crank that up.

Some people have suggested shield builds. Those rarely work on such a slow turning ship, unless you use dual tac teams. IF you use dual tac teams, make sure it's a shield build otherwise, use dual engineering team III's. Along with dual A2Sif's and an eject warp plasma III, plus whatever emergency to subsystem powers in the ensign slots, and you should be good.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14
# 8
08-27-2012, 03:01 PM
Being a Lifer, there's the advantage of the "free" 500 zen per month...

Not knowing what to do with my 5000+ points, I've decided on buying the Bortasqu' pack.

While I'm not overly amazed by it, I'm not disappointed either.

As a tactical officer, I chose to use the Tactical one (I got a Gorn engineer too, the War variant will be good for him).

The universal consoles are more of a novelty. Serious "raiders" won't use 'em besides maybe the Autocannon. The Autocannon, when skilled right, is a monster and the cooldown ain't too bad.

The HoH'SuS BoP is actually terrible in STFs. The AI is "Super Dumb" (read like Downey Jr's "we'Re super lost man !"). I really mean it... it's a carrier's BoP without the commands and has a Klingon with Down Syndrome as it's captain... On paper it has great potential:

Transphasic Torpedo (F)
Quad Disruptor Cannon (F)
Disruptor Turret (A)
Subspace Jump - Universal Console

As soon as you attack a target, it jumps behind it and shoots. While this tactic would be really badass in any Star trek TV episode, it's totally useless in STO. "you" are working on a shield facing, it's working the opposite (instead of helping you down your side). When your target explodes, the HoH'SuS often stays too close and is disabled by it.

Fun, but in the end, useless.

The Science console (the one that teleports your target 4km infront of you) has a cooldown that's WAY too long to be a useful tool. You'll often regret using it caus it'll be on cooldown when it counts.

The 3-console bonus is laughable at best... +0.5 Turn rate, -25% cooldown to those 3 consoles cooldown. I'd gladly wait an extra 30 seconds to use the Autocannon and use something else for the 2 other consoles.

In conclusion, as a Tactical officer, I can't recommand the pack. (havent tried it yet as an engineer) But if you got a good standard Bortas built and want extra punch, the Tactical Bortasqu' will be an excellent alternative.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,335
# 9
08-27-2012, 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majesticmsfc View Post
I never thought I'd say this, but I am considering buying the Bortasqu' pack. Is it worth it? I am buying it to give my Engineer a good tanking ship. I have my eye on the science version and thought buying the pack would also give me another two, plus the consoles.

I have looked through the forums and read the posts and threads and still not sure.

Is it really worth it? Or am I best off just buying the science Bortasqu'?
STO is sort of known for using terms in ways that the rest of the galaxy does not. Like global cool down. If you don't know what I mean by that, maybe the rest of this post isn't for you.

Tanking has at least two components. Threat generation and the ability to deal with the consequences of gaining that threat.

Lucky for us many of the mobs in STF's and the new fleet events can't be tanked as they are immune to threat. Some aren't though. The ones that aren't can likely all be handled in an escort, if they can be handled at all.

So sure. Sci Bortas is great. Its nice because with the two sci slots you can get a shield cap boost and a shield heal boost too. Its very nice to have those things if you plan on getting shot at a lot.

And it can turn just fine.

I do have a couple tac models just loaded up with tac consoles, but as I don't meter anything, dead is dead and mission complete is mission complete. In other words, never really had a fail. Did one kill a bit faster? Mebbee. But kill speed can vary so much based on factors far out of your control. Like a team member using tac fleet, or beta.

What the other posters are saying about the consoles, no argument there. BOP just flat out dies. The snare is like.....um...sure its ok. Cannon is really really nice. But without the 3 piece the cool down is pretty high.....and giving up the 2 console slots for useless abilities to gain the set bonus is.....well. It SEEMS dire. Or its seems like it doesn't matter. I've never put all 3 consoles in and said "wow that was great.". and for the money.....that's dire.

and here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt8-lDmbpeQ&feature=plcp

They turn GREAT don't you DARE put beams on one.

unless u want to. but do it because u like to, not because the ship won't turn.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,261
# 10
08-27-2012, 08:01 PM
The Bortasqu. This is one of those ships, like the Odyssey, that polarizes its faction playerbase. You either like it or dislike it. But IMO, it's worse with the KDF. You either love the Bortasqu or utterly despise it.

In the lineup of KDF cruisers, not counting the carriers, Klingon Cruisers have good turn rates. Then you have the Bortasqu that turns slower than molasses in the middle of winter in Antartica. Where with the Feds and the Odyssey, they're a bit more used to mild turning Cruisers. But even then, there's enough of them to make it known that alot dislike the Odyssey's turn rate. But it's worse with the KDF.

I'll say this. The Bortasqu can be built to be very tough. In STFs, like the Odyssey, you can withstand tremendous punishment. Unlike the Odyssey though, some of the Bortasqu variants can mount alot of power. Prior to the buffing of the Jem'Hadar Bugship (lol Cryptic, did it REALLY need buffing?), and the introduction of certain ships in the Fleet Shipyard system, the Bortasqu Tactical Cruiser was the only ship with 5 TAC consoles. A decloaking alpha strike with a Bortasqu TAC Cruiser firing disruptors as well as its Disruptor Autocannon is very powerful and nothing to scoff at. It just has problems with the remainder of a fight if it relied on DCs and DHCs. Also, throwing in as many RCS Consoles as you can for a better turn rate doesn't help much. Haven't tried it with Aux to Inertial Dampeners though.

So, in short, the ships are very tough and can potentially do alot of damage. They CAN mount the heaviest of cannons, but that abysmal turn rate is an immense detractor. The single, biggest factor that turns people away, IMO. If you've been used to playing BOPs, Raptors, and Klingon-designed Cruisers, the Bortasqu is a huge culture shock with it's absolutely terrible handling. And Kahless help you if you get a determined Escort on your a** that you can't shake off due to your speed and maneuverability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post

What the other posters are saying about the consoles, no argument there. BOP just flat out dies. The snare is like.....um...sure its ok. Cannon is really really nice. But without the 3 piece the cool down is pretty high.....and giving up the 2 console slots for useless abilities to gain the set bonus is.....well. It SEEMS dire. Or its seems like it doesn't matter. I've never put all 3 consoles in and said "wow that was great.". and for the money.....that's dire.
The console issue is a big, big deal for me. The only console I thought was any useful was the Disruptor Autocannon. That thing rocks, especially for a decloaking Alpha. But the other consoles are underwhelming. To make max use of the Autocannon, you need the set bonus to cut down that terribly long cooldown. What you're left doing is sacrificing 2 valuable Console slots for 2 mediocre consoles to make the 3rd of the set viable.

OP, if you want rugged KDF Cruisers that won't make you feel like a dying slug, take any other cruiser in the KDF lineup in the game.

Last edited by warmaker001b; 08-27-2012 at 08:06 PM.
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