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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
Devs,


The Vo'Quv deserves to have at least two fleet variants. Use the skin of each ship to base the variant upon.


Vo'Quv = Dreadnaught Variant
VoD'leh = Carrier Variant



The Dreadnaught variant would be the currently set Fleet Vo'Quv.


The Carrier Variant VoD'leh would have the following:


Type: Carrier
Hull: 42,000
Standard Shields: 7000 (Mk X)
Weapons: Fore 2 Aft 2
Can NOT equip dual cannons.
Hangar Bays: 4 (Ship is still limited to 4 deployed wings however)
Crew: 4,000

Bridge Officers:

Lt Tactical
Ensign Tactical
Commander Science
Lt Cmdr Engineering
Lt Cmdr Science

Device Slots:
5

Consoles:

3 Engineering, 5 science, 1 tactical

Turn Rate:
3

Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Inertia rating: 30
Bonus Power: +15 auxiliary power
Cost: 20,000 Fleet Credits, 4 Fleet Ship Module

Abilities:
Launch To'Duj Fighters
Carrier Commands
Subsystem Targeting
Sensor Analysis




The carrier variant would be a dedicated fleet carrier and for this it loses 2 weapon slots but gains 2 hangars for faster launch and increased launch versatility.

It is a bigger, heavier ship and thus it has a worse turn rate.

It gains sensor analysis, a 5th science console and stronger shields to match it with its science-support orientation. It loses one tactical console to gain sensor analysis (supports his pets and the entire team).

Finally, its bridge officer layout is swapped to allow it to focus on its science/support focus:

Lt Cmdr tactical is swapped with Lt science station. The ship will have a Lt Cmdr Science and a Lt Tactical.

It gains an ensign tactical station and +5 extra aux power bonus in compensation for the loss of 4k hull strength. This station will enable tac team to be used so that the ship can better shield tank.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg

Last edited by cmdrskyfaller; 08-27-2012 at 09:40 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 702
# 2
08-26-2012, 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
Hangar Bays: 4 (Ship is still limited to 4 deployed wings however. 1 per hangar)
I just want to point out that this would require changing the way the hangar pets work... The number of bays the ship has isnt the limiting factor to how much it can deploy..

The description for all of the bays generally states something like: "Each hangar supports 2 deployed wings at any given time"

That means the item itself, say [Hangar - To'duj Fighters], supports 2 wings of 3 , not the slot on the ship.

So giving a carrier 4 bays, but not changing the equippable pets means that it would be 2 wings per bay... or 8 wings or 24 fighters (or any combination of things).
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,560
# 3
08-27-2012, 03:42 AM
I like new stuff for the KDF but I don't know if many people would really care for it, not being able to launch any more fighters and for how much you lose you don't really gain much in return.

Between losing 2 weapons and a tac console slot, SA isn't really going to make up the damage, make it hard to do anything solo.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 4
08-27-2012, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amayakitsune View Post
I just want to point out that this would require changing the way the hangar pets work... The number of bays the ship has isnt the limiting factor to how much it can deploy..

The description for all of the bays generally states something like: "Each hangar supports 2 deployed wings at any given time"

That means the item itself, say [Hangar - To'duj Fighters], supports 2 wings of 3 , not the slot on the ship.

So giving a carrier 4 bays, but not changing the equippable pets means that it would be 2 wings per bay... or 8 wings or 24 fighters (or any combination of things).
See that's something I do not believe. Pre-F2P the main carriers (2-hangar) did launch a lot more wings per hangar than they do now (if memory serves me right one could have 4 wings per hangar out) while the flight deck cruisers were limited to 2 deployed wings so there is a means of limiting how many wings deployed total per ship rather than per hangar as a universal. The amount launched by the main carriers was reduced because of lag / FPS issues FYI.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lianthelia View Post
I like new stuff for the KDF but I don't know if many people would really care for it, not being able to launch any more fighters and for how much you lose you don't really gain much in return.

Between losing 2 weapons and a tac console slot, SA isn't really going to make up the damage, make it hard to do anything solo.
You are not taking into consideration how the ship works as a whole. You may be seeing only the loss of weapon slots without considering what the ship gains in return.

1- You have better launch capability and flexibility. Literally, you can launch all 4 wings at once rather than have to wait for the timers to launch 2 at a time.

2- You can mix the pet loadout in hangars. 4 bops = 4 bops launched at once. Or you can launch 2 bops and 2 todujs.. or 4 todujs.. or a mix of combat and support/drain pets.

This versatility is really,really big in damage output and survivability/support capability of the carrier. As a dedicated carrier this would be a defining characteristic.

(one that I believe the fed Atrox should have too but thats another story).

3- Yes, you lose 2 guns and 1 tac slot. News for you: If you want guns there's the Dreadnought variant. The loss of the 2 guns and tac slot are replaced with the sci console and sensor analysis. Pet damage and science based damage are greatly enhanced by SA.

Finally you have much stronger shields albeit a slightly weaker hull...and the boff slots make the VoD'leh a very potent science carrier capable of using a lot of science based offensive and support abilities or dedicate them to tanking. Look at the Atrox as a good example, the science slots are the same and it does wonders.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 702
# 5
08-27-2012, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
See that's something I do not believe. Pre-F2P the main carriers (2-hangar) did launch a lot more wings per hangar than they do now (if memory serves me right one could have 4 wings per hangar out) while the flight deck cruisers were limited to 2 deployed wings so there is a means of limiting how many wings deployed total per ship rather than per hangar as a universal. The amount launched by the main carriers was reduced because of lag / FPS issues FYI.

Flight deck cruiser only have 1 bay in which to slot a hangar. So if pre F2P the Vo'Quv was able to launch 4 wings, 2 from each bay, then because a flight deck cruiser half of the available bays it makes sense that it could only launch two wings and not 4... but thats going from 2 bays to 1 bay. Going up from 2 bays to 4 bays will allow an increase in the number of pets that a carrier can launch, because the slots dont limit anything but the actual number of hangar items that can be slotted. The hangar pets themselves are the thing that limits it, and thats why the all say something about how many wings are supported at any given time.

It doesnt matter why it was reduced in the first place... but they made changes to the actual pet items to do it, and not the carriers themselves.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 6
08-27-2012, 03:20 PM
No. Pre-F2P the voquv could launch up to 8 wings total, 4 per hangar. The flight deck cruiser were limited to just 2 wings from their one hangar. When the Kar'fi first came out it had one hangar but launched up to 4 wings too.. it was later given a 2nd hangar so it could launch them faster and just before F2P rolled out they gave it the same launch capability as the VoQuv.

The change done was to whatever it is that determines how many wings can be launched per hangar and was made universal to the ship system.. before each ship apparently could be given a max # of wings per hangar it had.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,560
# 7
08-28-2012, 03:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
See that's something I do not believe. Pre-F2P the main carriers (2-hangar) did launch a lot more wings per hangar than they do now (if memory serves me right one could have 4 wings per hangar out) while the flight deck cruisers were limited to 2 deployed wings so there is a means of limiting how many wings deployed total per ship rather than per hangar as a universal. The amount launched by the main carriers was reduced because of lag / FPS issues FYI.




You are not taking into consideration how the ship works as a whole. You may be seeing only the loss of weapon slots without considering what the ship gains in return.

1- You have better launch capability and flexibility. Literally, you can launch all 4 wings at once rather than have to wait for the timers to launch 2 at a time.

2- You can mix the pet loadout in hangars. 4 bops = 4 bops launched at once. Or you can launch 2 bops and 2 todujs.. or 4 todujs.. or a mix of combat and support/drain pets.

This versatility is really,really big in damage output and survivability/support capability of the carrier. As a dedicated carrier this would be a defining characteristic.

(one that I believe the fed Atrox should have too but thats another story).

3- Yes, you lose 2 guns and 1 tac slot. News for you: If you want guns there's the Dreadnought variant. The loss of the 2 guns and tac slot are replaced with the sci console and sensor analysis. Pet damage and science based damage are greatly enhanced by SA.

Finally you have much stronger shields albeit a slightly weaker hull...and the boff slots make the VoD'leh a very potent science carrier capable of using a lot of science based offensive and support abilities or dedicate them to tanking. Look at the Atrox as a good example, the science slots are the same and it does wonders.
Yes there is the Dreadnought variant...my point is honestly I don't know how many people would want this? I mean everything you lose just to launch all four wings at once. Just doesn't seem like it would be worth it.

But its more than the guns...with a turn rate of three you might as well start your turn and go to the restroom because by the time you get back odds are you wouldn't have made the full turn yet.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 8
08-28-2012, 04:24 AM
Maybe a 3rd hangar bay, but not a 4th one. 4 is definitely too much.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 9
08-29-2012, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lianthelia View Post
Yes there is the Dreadnought variant...my point is honestly I don't know how many people would want this? I mean everything you lose just to launch all four wings at once. Just doesn't seem like it would be worth it.
I would want it. A pure carrier.

'everything you lose' .. again you're just focusing on the loss of the weapon slots.

Math it out and consider what the ship is gaining in return.

Each ToDuj fighter torpedo does 5k damage. There are 3 fighters per wing. 4 wings =12 fighters.

12 x 5k = 60k damage.

In less than 5 seconds, by launching all 4 wings, you get 60k damage from their torpedoes alone.

You think the dreadnaught's 2 extra beam arrays and 1 extra tac slot (compared to VoD'leh carrier variant) can do that in 10 seconds? The Dreadnought variant does 30k dmg with torps from launching 2 wings and its own weapon damage.

In sustained damage..aka leaving the pets under attack command and ignoring them while you focus on your own ship's gun damage... the Dreadnaught does get an advantage. In spike damage & support abilities the VoD'leh carrier has a significant advantage.

Two flavors of the same ship. Two different roles.

Quote:
But its more than the guns...with a turn rate of three you might as well start your turn and go to the restroom because by the time you get back odds are you wouldn't have made the full turn yet.
Which is why I put it there. The carrier is not to be a close combat ship thus its weakness.

The turn rate however can be changed to match the VoQuv and rather have the ship's inertia change so that the VoD'leh CAN turn but it drifts a LOT during the turn (which would be awesome imo). That way the VoQuv variant can have more effective vector change than the carrier but both retain the same ability to point the nose around.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11
# 10
08-29-2012, 04:45 PM
I don't think the extra "spike" of having the other half of your deployable wings available from the start to be worth it. Considering as all that extra damage you're going on about is just going to impact the shields and not do much. In that which matters, that extra spike at the beginning will pale in comparison to what's needed, long sustained high DPS. And if both carrier variants will only be able to deploy the same exact number of ships in total, the Dread will win out in the DPS fight every time in situations that matter.
This is @PrincessKatrina.
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