Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 11
08-27-2012, 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adabisi View Post
I must agree with the poster above me. They fire weapons that tickle.....

Elite is elite for a reason. The mobs are scaled up to a higher rate of fire or damage or amount of damage they do....there are easy strategies to avoid such calamities to your ship that work.


1 Keep moving...the slower you move the less defense you have...this is especially for those silly cruisers who think giving a broadside and not moving is the best idea.

2. Invest in your captain skills that give energy and kinetic resists as well as the innate defense which also tend to draw aggro (especially for cruisers who want to tank)

3. Invest in the skill that offers you more defenses through agility of your ship aka starship maneuvers

4. This is one if often used as a sole way to avoid the wrath of the elite NPCs...consoles. It is nice to use these but also take into account diminishing returns so less investment in these and more into other things that can allso defend your ship....higher speed is a good example through engines power....but do not entirely ignore this of course.

5. Another skill that, in my talks with lesser experienced captains, is often over looked is AUX to inertial dampeners. It gives you a boost of speed which translates into more defense as well as damage resists which go up based on your AUX power.....and for many like science ships and carriers can help them greatly and it does not share cooldowns with the basic 3 emergency to wpns/eng/aux/shields or the holy trinity of science team engineering team or tactical team.

6. Brace for impact

in my cruiser specifically built to tank and take a beating my kinetics resistance regularly go over 65 and higher......at norm then are at 50....and plasma resists are about the same.......antiproton is next.....they are all borg energy weapon types used......

I often see cruisers go head to head with borg spheres..only to pop 5-10 seconds later.....they cry it is too hard but if they would try some of these techniques and or placements of skills and consoles their survivability will increase in leaps and bounds.


On of my greatest tactics in my cruiser is to keep max speed and circle the cube.........I dont do a ton of dps.......so no need for me to stay on one side of the cube...i circle and circle staying at full speed......the rest can fire on the ships vulnerable areas as they are not targetted.....The cube only fires at me except for the random FAW...my team survives and noone dies.....a job well done...


The big issue is when there is not tank or a tank with weak skills.....a cascade affect happens....he/she dies....next on the aggro is targetted....they pop...and so on and so on......SO if you are a tank......you better do your job and keep the folks alive......come to the game prepared. And if you find your build is weak..dont be afraid to max range and flee out of range to stay alive......silly AI still goes after you ..JUST be prepared to rush back in and get it back as the DPS will soon aggro the mobs....
Great advice thank you, though I noticed that diminishing returns does not work quite the way you expect and that tank skill is awful for escorts, (I tend to grab agro in my escorts even when paired with a strong tank). Then again I have done a bunch of what's on this list.

Now here's my point, I do not want baddies that hit harder for the sake of weak mechanics. I want baddies that make me think, kinda like I have to think when I PvP. That's why I am in DontDrunks camp.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
They taste the same.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,170
# 12
08-27-2012, 06:55 PM
What happened is not cause I was sitting still or anything. Last time I was moving to the target as always. I was dead before right after the 2nd hit, and my shields was at full. The first hit was the laser hit, then came a torpedo spread or a torpedo. Then my ship went boom. The second time, was I just killed 3 bird of preys, then the warbird decloaked to start the next part of the mission. It fired lasers into my stern, I just hit rear phasers, and started to turn. Then a volley of torpedoes came and boom I was gone. At that one my shields was almost full, and my crew meter was about 1/4th down. So I was in good shape on that one as well. As I pulled out of combat with far less than that and still came out alive.

There is a issue on the torpedoes. And I don't play the elite at this time. So the level of difficulty is not the answer on being one shotted. Cause after my death from it, I come back and take them out after I get fully healed up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 13
08-27-2012, 08:28 PM
Galor: while this one uses HYT3 Photons, those are NOT what's killing you. They're harmless. What is: Galors pack Feefback Pulse III, and that one can easily chew 30+% off a BoP if you don't stop shooting at it, and right through shields. Easily visible as blue sparks running back to your ship, and nothing your Hazard Emitters can't cope with. You ARE running some HE, aren't you?

Chel Grett: yeah, this time it's actual torpedos. HYT3 Transphasics. They take about 10-15% off your hull per volley if you're in a BoP or other squishy, but again, really nothing your HE can't cope with, and easily avoidable by attacking from the side.

D'deridex: this one's actually a bit unfair, I have to agree. But it's intentional, and AFAIK has alway been like this: The D'deridex can shoot a combination TS2 + HYT3 Plasma torpedo. Yes, Spread and High Yield at the same time, with damage boni from both. That is actually SUPPOSED to kill you unless you're killing the torps - though with TT + EPtS + TSS you can actually tank it, even in a BoP. It still hurts, though. And: they can shoot that combo sideways.
But ... c'mon, they're the Romulan's Battleships. They're supposed to be dangerous. And they are. Tractor Beam and Viral Matrix give them ample opportunity to wreak havoc when your defenses are down - don't get caught.
Against these, the only thing that really helps is preparation: shut the down before they can shut you down, or bring Polarize Hull, an AoE, and avoid their frontal arc so it can't use the VM. Once you get used to them, they stop being dangerous.

All of them are manageable. Some of them are difficult if you don't understand what they're doing, and the D'deridex will kill you if you screw up and react too late, but that's actually fine in my book.
Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,052
# 14
08-27-2012, 09:26 PM
Uh, no... Not high yeild, not pulse feedback. I know what they look like. I can see the icon under my targetted ship when it has high yield applied. I can see when it's got evasices, when it's got torp spread, when it's got whatever... I can see what it's running. These are simple, non-boosted torpedoes. These are not boff skills.

These are also NEW changes. Past 2-3 patches some time (the more recent few), have added this BS powerup to AI.


They have to change it to be better than the claptrap they're putting out. You can't have super ships that think like players. You either have 2 sets of rules but make the player more diverse, OR you make them EQUAL TO PLAYERS, hull, firepower, THE WHOLE SHEBANG.


You can't have super hulled, 1-shot-killing, godlike enemies that are as diverse as players. You can't. It's an unfair copout of a cheap-ass programmer who's phoning it in for a paycheck. Said programmer should be SACKED, and a new one found.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 240
# 15
08-27-2012, 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
npcs have a flat and huge damage modifier because they only come with basically a fore and aft beam and torpedo. as apposed to player ships that can run up to 4 weapons each fore and aft. that flat modifier buffs that 1 or 2 beams the npcs have to act like 4 or 6 player beams, but that modifier is also applied to the torpedo too, so its like each torpedo hits like 3 or 4 player torpedoes. thats the flaw, players don't run 6 to 8 beams and 4 torpedoes at the same time, they run like a single torp, if ever. the torpedoes npcs fire should not get the same modifier the energy weapons do. but npcs basically nead a rebuild from the ground up anyway, that would just be a band aid. currently those torps are only really killer on elite, and their what makes elite a pain in the ass as apposed to hard. getting 1 shot by npcs using THY does not add to the challenge, it just makes it less fun.
I have never considered that before. But as someone whose Hegh'ta was nuked by a single 24,500k damage photon torpedo from Elite Donatra and watches single disruptor bolts hit with thousands of shield and hull damage when kiting her...it makes a disturbing amount of sense.

I am of the opinion that the system governing NPCs and their damage calc is no simple fix. Nothing seems to be a simple fix. Everything I have seen in Cryptic's reticence to overhaul aspects of their system makes me think the background code is as needlessly complicated as a Rube Goldberg machine. Figuring out how to retool this might be like unraveling a ball of fishing wire. Q knows when some, if any, sort of retooling might come to pass.

But if this really is the case, then there's something to blame the damage on at least.

The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"

Last edited by nikkyvix; 08-27-2012 at 11:19 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 16
08-28-2012, 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkyvix View Post
I have never considered that before. But as someone whose Hegh'ta was nuked by a single 24,500k damage photon torpedo from Elite Donatra and watches single disruptor bolts hit with thousands of shield and hull damage when kiting her...it makes a disturbing amount of sense.

I am of the opinion that the system governing NPCs and their damage calc is no simple fix. Nothing seems to be a simple fix. Everything I have seen in Cryptic's reticence to overhaul aspects of their system makes me think the background code is as needlessly complicated as a Rube Goldberg machine. Figuring out how to retool this might be like unraveling a ball of fishing wire. Q knows when some, if any, sort of retooling might come to pass.

But if this really is the case, then there's something to blame the damage on at least.
Well said. From Borticus responses about sci powers and [Acc] modifiers not effecting FAW Dontdrunk and yourself have the right of it.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
They taste the same.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 17
08-28-2012, 04:29 AM
The torps seem to be behaving as always "Escort Pimpslaping", however the and suddenly Kaboom moments are probably showing up now more due to the fact that the AI got a much needed overhaul and actually use maybe 2 skills during the course of their fight compared to 1 or none. The trick is sometimes these skills are things like attack pattern X or I swear I have seen cubes fire off go down fighting. Those skills boost based on % for a few of them so you get NPC damage mod + % boost on that number, and the rather annoying torp is now transformed into the ender of worlds torp.

With any luck one of the season 8 or 9 parts will be revamping how the AI fights and get rid of that damage mod, it scales terribly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 103
# 18
08-28-2012, 05:24 AM
Tbh i dont care of npcs, never had a problem with them even being nuked sometimes full in hull and shield, the best way to handle them; keep distance with them = more time to react
I got nuked by donatra sometimes others i can hold the line in my BoP when i got a HY from her just pop TT, HE, Brace and a good monotanium will do the job 7 of 10 times, crossing fingers also helps
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Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,052
# 19
08-28-2012, 11:05 AM
For the last time, I'm not talking elite STF boss battles. I'm talking run of the mill, DAILY MISSIONS standard cruiser enemies.

As mentioned, no other special combinations of BOFF skills were in play at the time (unless otherwise mentioned, as when I mentioned "spread" -- obviously it used torp spread). These were not high yield, not with special attack buffs, just regular old BS torps.


I make this very big distinction because STFs are a whole other level of broken. They really are 2 different topics.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 240
# 20
08-28-2012, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
I make this very big distinction because STFs are a whole other level of broken. They really are 2 different topics.
I understand what you mean; STFs are meant to be the end-game challenge above normal missions after all.

But that doesn't mean that the same problem can exist with them as well. If a mis-calibrated system is in place through the entire game, it's considered broken everywhere, not just in one isolated aspect of the game.

The only distinction is that in Elite STFs the players are expected to work to overcome it because they're asking for the challenge, and many can argue that the mis-calibration is forgiven because of this.

The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
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