Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
# 1 Fleet Defiant Suggestion
08-28-2012, 11:03 AM
I am a big fan of the Tactical Escort Retrofit (Defiant) and am looking forward to the Fleet Defiant. That being said, I have seen some griping about the Fleet Defiant and the Defiant in general on the forums. The 2 main problems I see are that at end game, with the proper BOff/DOff setup the third ensign tactical boff power is useless. The second issue I see being discussed is that the Fleet version does not get the shield upgrade that most Fleet ships received. Why not make the ensign slot universal? This would allow those that feel shorted a shield upgrade the ability to slot EPtS or TSS. It would also be in line with other new ships that have universal stations.
Thanks
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 2
08-28-2012, 11:23 AM
They don't get a shield mod upgrade, but they do get a hull upgrade.

In the interest of balance (and variety), they aren't going to give the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit a universal BOFF slot when it already has a 5th tactical console, more hull, highest turn rate for a Fed ship, and can cloak.

As much as I love my Tactical Escort Retrofit, even I think that would be too much.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,464
# 3
08-28-2012, 11:28 AM
If they turned the ensign tac into engineering it would go a long way for the defiant.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 31
# 4
08-28-2012, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
They don't get a shield mod upgrade, but they do get a hull upgrade.
Then the Shipyard ship statistics need changing, when I picked up my Fleet Defiant it stated it had a 0.99 shield modifier rather than the basic 0.9 it actually has. It wouldn't be so bad but the Fleet Sabre I have on my Engineer has the 0.99 shield modifier but states it should be a 0.77 shield modifier.
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Last edited by daisyberkowitz1; 08-28-2012 at 11:43 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 5
08-28-2012, 12:06 PM
The defiant is basically a flying gun. It's supposed to be a glass cannon, and it's not really designed for end game. In fact after a few patches, there were no ships really designed for end game, so the designers put that other BOff slot in for more mid to late game.

I personally am still running a heavy raptor on my KDF side, but I am starting to need that ensign tac slot less and less as I perfect and smooth out my build and gameplay. However until you are able to do that, that extra slot is great.

Also like previously stated, that sucker can cloak, has 5 tac consoles, can equip a quad cannon, turns and moves like a boss, and is the freakin defiant. Even if you have a useless slot, you'll still kill pretty much everything.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 6
08-28-2012, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daisyberkowitz1 View Post
Then the Shipyard ship statistics need changing, when I picked up my Fleet Defiant it stated it had a 0.99 shield modifier rather than the basic 0.9 it actually has. It wouldn't be so bad but the Fleet Sabre I have on my Engineer has the 0.99 shield modifier but states it should be a 0.77 shield modifier.
There's a lot of inconsistencies in the game, which, borderlines false advertising. If something is wrong, and someone informs them, that should be fixed ASAP.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 7
08-28-2012, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
In the interest of balance (and variety), they aren't going to give the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit a universal BOFF slot when it already has a 5th tactical console, more hull, highest turn rate for a Fed ship, and can cloak.

As much as I love my Tactical Escort Retrofit, even I think that would be too much.
Hit the nail on the head. Although it's useless, that third Tac Ensign is also a balancing factor among Escorts; who all fill their own niche:

1. Defiant-F:
Pros:
- The added Console is a Tac Console for the best DD potential.
- Highest Escort Turn Rate (short of JHAS), 17.
- Cloak.

Cons:
- Third Tac Ensign.
- Lower Hull and Shields than other Fleet Escorts.

Niche: only one with C and LC Tac and 5 Tac Consoles (so it has the highest damage potential, even before the Turn and Cloak are considered) at the cost of being a bit squishier.


2. Hermes-F:
Pros:
- 3.3% more Hull than Defiant-F.
- 10% more Shields than Defiant-F.
- Universal Ensign.
- Average Turn Rate, 16.

Cons:
- The added Console is an Eng Console, which offers very poor offensive options (lolPlasma Distribution Manifold) and mediocre defensive options (one more Field Gen>one more Neutronium).
- No special tricks.

Niche: no wasted Ensign, at the cost of having a bad 10th Console and being average (by Fleet FED Escort standards) in every other respect.


3. Prometheus-F:
Pros:
- 3.3% more Hull than Defiant-F.
- 10% more Shields than Defiant-F.
- The added Console is a Tac Console for the best DD potential.
- Already had 3 Sci Consoles (+1 Field Gen).
- LC Sci BOFF opens some nice options.
- MVAM compatible.
- Average Turn Rate, 16.

Cons:
- Third Tac Ensign.

Niche: tbh, a lot of them: second in tankiness to the Akira-F, second in damage potential to the Defiant-F, can do things other Escorts can't (Gravity Well...),...


4. Akira-F:
Pros:
- 6.7% more Hull than Defiant-F.
- 10% more Shields than Defiant-F.
- The added Console is a Sci Console, so you can add 18% to those Shields.
- Eng LC opens up some options.
- Hangar.

Cons:
- Third Tac Ensign.
- Lowest Turn Rate, 15.

Niche: tankiest (3 Sci Consoles, best Hull), pets. I'm not a fan of the Eng LC, but some people are.


5. Aquarius-F: lulz. No, seriously, what is this thing for?
Niche: none.


It's not perfectly balanced: the Aquarius is completely pointless and the Prometheus-F frankly gets a sweeter deal than the others, but overall 4 out of 5 have a niche; if they change the Third Tac Ensign to anything else, that'll drop to 3 out of 5.



Note that, at least Escort-wise, the KDF really got the short end of the stick with the Fleet upgrades: the Qin-F has a Third Tac Ensign, 15 Turn Rate and the Hermes-F's console setup: it's like the took the worst bits of the FED Ships and put them together. Though it does have the Cloak, that's not negligible.
And its Cloak doesn't take a Console slot, unlike the Defiant's.

Last edited by quiscustodiet; 08-28-2012 at 12:36 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 8
08-28-2012, 12:27 PM
It should be noted I am rather fond of the FPE, because it's the tankiest, even though most escort pilots think that ONE more eng console is useless, that ONE more can add up to 20% additional defense in any respect, so it's worth it.
I am not bashing the FMVE, but take this for example: borg cube drops your shields and tractors you and launches a heavy plasma torpedo. If you are a FMVE and you already blew your anti tractor whatever, you're probably going to either A) Get nova'd, or B) lose 50-80% of your hull. Basically, life will suck for you for the next 2-3 minutes if you do survive.
FPE however, same situation, you are only likely to lose 30-60% of your hull, and have a somewhat better chance of survival, at the cost of some utility and a small amount of offensive power.

But overall, back on the topic if this thread, yeeeah, that final ensign slot on the fleet defiant is kinda... less useful? XD
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 9
08-28-2012, 12:30 PM
Asspulled numbers are asspulled.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 10
08-28-2012, 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quiscustodiet View Post
Hit the nail on the head. Although it's useless, that third Tac Ensign is also a balancing factor among Escorts; who all fill their own niche:

1. Defiant-F:
Pros:
- The added Console is a Tac Console for the best DD potential.
- Highest Escort Turn Rate (short of JHAS), 17.
- Cloak.

Cons:
- Third Tac Ensign.
- Lower Hull and Shields than other Fleet Escorts.

Niche: only one with C and LC Tac and 5 Tac Consoles (so it has the highest damage potential, even before the Turn and Cloak are considered) at the cost of being a bit squishier.


2. Hermes-F:
Pros:
- 3.3% more Hull than Defiant-F.
- 10% more Shields than Defiant-F.
- Universal Ensign.
- Average Turn Rate, 16.

Cons:
- The added Console is an Eng Console, which offers very poor offensive options (lolPlasma Distribution Manifold) and mediocre defensive options (one more Field Gen>one more Neutronium).
- No special tricks.

Niche: no wasted Ensign, at the cost of having a bad 10th Console and being average (by Fleet FED Escort standards) in every other respect.


3. Prometheus-F:
Pros:
- 3.3% more Hull than Defiant-F.
- 10% more Shields than Defiant-F.
- The added Console is a Tac Console for the best DD potential.
- Already had 3 Sci Consoles (+1 Field Gen).
- LC Sci BOFF opens some nice options.
- MVAM compatible.
- Average Turn Rate, 16.

Cons:
- Third Tac Ensign.

Niche: tbh, a lot of them: second in tankiness to the Akira-F, second in damage potential to the Defiant-F, can do things other Escorts can't (Gravity Well...),...


4. Akira-F:
Pros:
- 6.7% more Hull than Defiant-F.
- 10% more Shields than Defiant-F.
- The added Console is a Sci Console, so you can add 18% to those Shields.
- Eng LC opens up some options.
- Hangar.

Cons:
- Third Tac Ensign.
- Lowest Turn Rate, 15.

Niche: tankiest (3 Sci Consoles, best Hull), pets. I'm not a fan of the Eng LC, but some people are.


5. Aquarius-F: lulz. No, seriously, what is this thing for?
Niche: none.


It's not perfectly balanced: the Aquarius is completely pointless and the Prometheus-F frankly gets a sweeter deal than the others, but overall 4 out of 5 have a niche; if they change the Third Tac Ensign to anything else, that'll drop to 3 out of 5.



Note that, at least Escort-wise, the KDF really got the short end of the stick with the Fleet upgrades: the Qin-F has a Third Tac Ensign, 15 Turn Rate and the Hermes-F's console setup: it's like the took the worst bits of the FED Ships and put them together.
Don't forget, with all of those other ships, you can use the extra console slot for more ability-type consoles, like AMS, Subspace Jump, Vent Theta Radiation, etc.

Making the other ships a bit more flexible in however you want to build it.

With a 5th Tactical slot, you could put in a universal console, but at the cost of doing additional damage.
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