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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,542
# 11
08-28-2012, 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair114 View Post
Engineering Captain + Escort: Massively improves the durability of escorts by boosting power levels (particularly shields and Aux without reducing speed/maneuverability to compensate), greatly mitigates weapon drain caused by things like Dual Cannons and Beam Overloads making heavy use of them even more practical, and adds two additional survival skills for yourself in the form of Rotate Shield Frequency and Miracle Worker.
you forgot to add that it only might be able to deal the same damage over time as a tac/(kdf)cruiser, and also have less burst then a tac/(kdf)cruiser. really not that great.



i have both F ktinga and F vorcha, each on their own character, and have been using basically nothing else since them, they are both so fun to play. i would suggest doing similar, these single character ships deserve thier own character. you wasted your money if you ever bench a fleet ship imo. if you use them on anything but a tac captain you are doing it wrong. they are both built to take advantage of their ability to use DHCs, ether with the tac stations to support them or the turn rate to support them. with 2 turn consoles they turn in the mid 20s with minimal engine power, the ktinga is noticeably better at turning, that 1 more bace makes a huge difference when all the modifiers are added up.

which deals more damage? its actually hard to say. i think im better at getting kills in my ktinga honestly. the trick with both ships is to have at least 3 blue quality damage control doffs and 1 copy of EPtS3 an 1 copy of EPtW1. with those doffs you can have 95% up time on both with only 1 copy of each

this is a huge relief on the vorcha's limited engineering powers, and opens up many many eng options to the ktinga. my ktinga with 3 particle gen consoles can deal between 600 and 1200 DOT with EWP3 depending on tac buffs, and it acts like a snare too. running a tractor beam is recommended too, you dont turn quite like an escorts, but with several snares that becomes less and less of an issue. on the ktinga still still have room for several of the rest of the important eng powers like RSP A2S, DEM, ET and ES. the ktinga can tank like crazy, burst very well with 3 DHCs and a DBB for BO1, support the team with hull and shield heals, have 2 snares, and do a bunch of shield bypassing plasma damage all at the same time, it is a force, and my personal favorite.

plus the 'inferior' fleet ships have a better then advertized shield mod, instead of .94 its 1.07. another example is the somraw that has a .935 shield mod instead of .71. i can confirm the saber's in the same boat, and likely all others. the ships that were at tier 5 that have a fleet version now are correct and as advertized. don't let that advertised shield mod scare you away from any of those newly tier 5 fleet ships.

on the fleet vorcha there are not enough eng stations to use EWP, ive tried it and the survivability is too lacking. the vorcha can certainly spike harder though, during an alpha it can use BO3 instead of only 1 like the ktinga, or run omega for an excellent maneuverability buff, and run 4 DHCs with an escort's CRF up time. the ship is an inferior cruiser and inferior escort though. a pure example of each can do ether the healing or damage dealing much better. but its a hell of a lot of fun to use

here is my ktinga build

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=178

and my fleet vorcha build. its a bit outdated, i need to update it some time. i wouldn't run an engineering setup other then this on it though

COM eng- EPtW1, RSP1, EPtS3, A2S3
ENS eng- ET1

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=109
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,455
# 12
08-28-2012, 07:01 PM
For the TorKaht I'm close to having the resources to test and aux2batt build. But, in the mean time I've been having fun w/a AoE high pressure dps build w/Tac Captain.

et1, aux2damp1

epts1,

epts1, rps1, dem2, aux2sif3

tt, cvs1, apo

tt, cvs1

I use(abuse) tet glider and plas leech w/this build. Solid turnrate w/2 rcs in lows, gets squishy when i put plas leech and borg consoles there as well. But, it's 2 xtra slots to boost flow caps.

I'll update how the aux2batt tech doff build pans out after I run it some.

Edit Current Aux2Batt:

Dem3, EPTS3, Aux2Batt, ET

APO, CVS1, TT

APD, TT

HE2, TB

EPTW1

All DHCs and Turrets.

The main problem w/aux2batt&tech doffs w/this build is the 2nd Ens Eng and Tac slots are not very usefull. I picked EPTW incase the battery was on cooldown and I want to save ET and someone dropped my weapons. But, really it's something to use if you don't need to run ETPS and won't bump heads w/Aux2Batt atm. You could also slot a 2nd ET if facing heavy VM.

It's not designed to be tanky, but just enough to apply high pressure AoE DPS w/Tet glider and Dem3 and CVS. You should be able to hit and run w/it while chaining the AoE DPS if you're not chased away. Since by in large the raiders and escorts for KDF are being left in the dust I'm trying to build it to fill that role as best I can.

Last edited by p2wsucks; 08-31-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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# 13
08-29-2012, 01:52 AM
There is something you didn't get, I'm fine with engs or scis flying escorts, but not with tacs on cruisers, since damage is in no way what we expect from them. The tacs in cruiser should really learn the value of team play and should spend all their extra heals on the escorts and scis. That's what they are made for.

One of my chars is a tac on a fleet Qin raptor. This beast is wuite tanky but it's clearly not enough to resist to anything. In many instances I try to stay close to my team mates to get some extra heal if they notice that the escort in the team isn't in a good shape, and since my raptor is DSP oriented with a tac in it, pulling all the aggro isn't rare.

The fact is that tacs in cruisers are spending all their available time taking pleasure (if you know what I mean) watching their dps instead of healing those who can punch through ennemies. And the poor escorts have to find their way to survive, fly in escape mode pretty often because none of these genius had the idea to send an extra heal they probably don't have since their primary objective is to "pull the aggro for themselves" and to "dps a lot". When I say that in weeks I've NEVER recieved a heal from tacs on cruisers you can believe me. They must be too busy doing laughable "dps".

I don't mind if they survive more honnestly, they will never pull the aggro away from my raptor and will never send extra heals they don't have to allow those who have real dps (and not slightly improved puny dps) to survive.

Maybe you think that being a healer isn't funny, but then you may choose another ship to be usefull. I don't use my eng on his galor (which is the fed genuine battlecruiser) that often because I don't enjoy healing poorly skilled tacs in pve. This is understandable, but it can't justify the fact that you're neglecting your team mates.

BTW my maiin (fed) is a sci and healing is in no way the primary objective of scis. The sci has to controll stuff, and the eng in his cruiser has to heal everyone on the map, even if he's alone (he should be able to do this anyway).

Last edited by diogene0; 08-29-2012 at 01:57 AM.
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# 14
08-29-2012, 03:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
There is something you didn't get, I'm fine with engs or scis flying escorts, but not with tacs on cruisers, since damage is in no way what we expect from them. The tacs in cruiser should really learn the value of team play and should spend all their extra heals on the escorts and scis. That's what they are made for.
what the hell are you talking about? nothing about an eng captain makes it so he can support his team better then a tactical can. an engineer can deal a quarter of the damage a tac can in exchange for 2 self heals, big deal. tacs in cruisers being distracted and not throwing heals has everything to do with how poorly skilled the player is and nothing to do with the captain/ship combo. engineers have literally no redeeming value, they are like this game's easy mode, extra hard to kill so pve'ers don't have an immersion break.

i cant think of a more wasteful choice then sticking an engineer in a fleet vorcha, you cant do an engineer's or cruiser's job in one, they don't have enough engineering stations to do any meaning full support. theres just enough to keep yourself alive, and a plethora of offense skills to deal damage. no engineer should ever fly a cruiser that doesn't have COM and LTC engineering stations, all the other cruisers are built for tacs.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 15
08-29-2012, 04:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
what the hell are you talking about? nothing about an eng captain makes it so he can support his team better then a tactical can. an engineer can deal a quarter of the damage a tac can in exchange for 2 self heals, big deal. tacs in cruisers being distracted and not throwing heals has everything to do with how poorly skilled the player is and nothing to do with the captain/ship combo. engineers have literally no redeeming value, they are like this game's easy mode, extra hard to kill so pve'ers don't have an immersion break.

i cant think of a more wasteful choice then sticking an engineer in a fleet vorcha, you cant do an engineer's or cruiser's job in one, they don't have enough engineering stations to do any meaning full support. theres just enough to keep yourself alive, and a plethora of offense skills to deal damage. no engineer should ever fly a cruiser that doesn't have COM and LTC engineering stations, all the other cruisers are built for tacs.
I'm talking about cruisers in general, not about a specific KDF cruiser anyway. 99% of tacs on cruisers are noobs anyway, they play for themselves only and don't care about the rest of the team, so it proves my point. The tac on cruiser is the kind of solo guy playing for himself only.

And if you want to speak more specifically about the fleet vo'cha, no tac captain can fully support the power use of 7 or 8 turrets and cannons with CRF. The eng can, with EPS power transfer and nadion inversion (it's not supposed to lower the power use of weapon but it's a pretty efficient bug), and constantly maintaining power levels above 110-120 is always more important than the 15s dps boost from an attack pattern alpha.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 406
# 16
08-29-2012, 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Maybe you think that being a healer isn't funny, but then you may choose another ship to be usefull. I don't use my eng on his galor (which is the fed genuine battlecruiser) that often because I don't enjoy healing poorly skilled tacs in pve. This is understandable, but it can't justify the fact that you're neglecting your team mates.

BTW my maiin (fed) is a sci and healing is in no way the primary objective of scis. The sci has to controll stuff, and the eng in his cruiser has to heal everyone on the map, even if he's alone (he should be able to do this anyway).
Hmmm....first off, the Galor is not 'the fed genuine battlecruiser', as it is not a Fed ship at all. Fed and KDF characters have exactly the same access to the ship (which is to say, none without spending real money and getting lucky), and its stats aren't that different from an Excelsior or Regent in any event. Your understanding of where ships fit in the game seems lacking.

Second off, you assume Engineers in cruisers heal other ships. I have found that the ship type has no effect on which characters heal others, and ninety-five percent of those who could heal others do not do so. While the ship selection can make it easier to heal, the decision to heal is entirely the player's. My Tac in his K'tinga heals others quite regularly because I choose to set the ship up that way. I have been in a great number of STFs and Fleet missions, and few if any Engineers have healed anyone, regardless of their ships. People are generally too busy fighting their own ships and only concerned with what they are doing, and won't take time to be the healer unless the player is interested in that beforehand.

If a player wants to be the healer in a group, the Cruiser will give them the best ability to do that, regardless of their profession, and they will likely still do it in whatever ship they fly. If they don't want to be, then it doesn't matter what they are in. On the flip side, Tac captains will always do more damage than other professions in whatever ship they fly, just as Eng captains will heal more of their own damage than other professions. So, your argument would only be valid if you had said "A Tac captain in a cruiser is a waste because they can't keep themselves alive as long as an Eng captain, and damage isn't as important to me as personal survivability".
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# 17
08-29-2012, 06:07 AM
There are a few select Cruisers that run well on Tacticals, my main KDF runs a Galor and with the Universal Station as a Tactical Boff it works very well as both a heavy hitter and a tank, I can also buff allies with it as well which allows me to also preform the role of an Engineer 50% of the time while still doing the heavy damage.

I normally only fun Tacs in Escorts/Raptors/Raiders but Kevaas is an exception. The Fleet Vorcha from it's stats looks ideal for a Tactical Officer with the high Tactical station.

diogene0, Tacticals in Cruisers on the Federation sides are as you say, the KDF side I find is more flexible, thanks to several factors including the higher turn rates, DHC's plus the +10 Power to weapons. I'm not saying every Cruiser is right for a Tactical but the Galor and from what it looks like the Fleet Vorcha seem to work well.
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Originally Posted by macronius View Post
Cryptic is sloppy. Breaking News at 11. This is what happens when there is no outline or plan and you just make up **** as you go along.
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We can tell our great grandchildren, "In my day, our cloaks were so sensitive that even dialogue broke them and we couldn't change our clothes!"
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 18
08-29-2012, 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
All of these ships are cruisers, which means that they have to survive in any case, even against an elite tac cube, the gate of infected space elite without any trick.
If you need an Engineer to do those things that's a statement about your abilities, or rather inabilities.

So speak for yourself, since quite a lot of us can do that with any captain in a well-built cruiser.

On top of that any Tac, or even Sci, captain in a Cruiser with the same or similar ranks in threat control will always out-threat you - leaving you following along, your special abilities largely unused as all of the tanking gets done by another ship.


Don't mistake poorly built ships and bad players you meet in the PUG queue as the final word on what can be done in a Cruiser.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 19
08-29-2012, 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
what the hell are you talking about? nothing about an eng captain makes it so he can support his team better then a tactical can. an engineer can deal a quarter of the damage a tac can in exchange for 2 self heals, big deal. tacs in cruisers being distracted and not throwing heals has everything to do with how poorly skilled the player is and nothing to do with the captain/ship combo. engineers have literally no redeeming value, they are like this game's easy mode, extra hard to kill so pve'ers don't have an immersion break.

i cant think of a more wasteful choice then sticking an engineer in a fleet vorcha, you cant do an engineer's or cruiser's job in one, they don't have enough engineering stations to do any meaning full support. theres just enough to keep yourself alive, and a plethora of offense skills to deal damage. no engineer should ever fly a cruiser that doesn't have COM and LTC engineering stations, all the other cruisers are built for tacs.
Saved me the need to post. QFT.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 20
08-29-2012, 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
And if you want to speak more specifically about the fleet vo'cha, no tac captain can fully support the power use of 7 or 8 turrets and cannons with CRF. The eng can, with EPS power transfer and nadion inversion (it's not supposed to lower the power use of weapon but it's a pretty efficient bug), and constantly maintaining power levels above 110-120 is always more important than the 15s dps boost from an attack pattern alpha.


Nadion and EPS mean absolutely nothing in the face of Tac Damage buffs - it's not even remotely close and your idea of "15 extra DPS" is so far off the mark as to just come across as silly.
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