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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 21
08-29-2012, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
no problem, it was fun. like i said in the chat, i couldn't help but laugh at the near absurdity



it went about like this

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57...9835AC0B5D334/

no one needed any weapons power, everyone was nearly impenetrable, and all the mines and HY transphasics and MVAM escorts tractor repulsering you all was basically impossible to defend against. no real attempt was made to damage our shields, it was 100% hull assault. i thought something like this could work in theory, glad i got to see it in action once.
Hehe it was fun :p
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 22
08-29-2012, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleon22 View Post
Wait... what is wrong with tactical team?
Its not in favour of mini's trico hahaha
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 23
08-29-2012, 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marctraiderz View Post
Its not in favour of mini's trico hahaha
ah, lol!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 75
# 24 for pve not pvp
08-29-2012, 10:46 AM
But you still need at least [acc]x2 for pvp or you won't hit anything and there goes your dps.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 25
08-29-2012, 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
I think your math is wrong as 3 regular transphasics pretty much fire the same speed as 3 rapid so I do not see how rapid could be pulling out more DPS. When you say ?being half a second? that is not fire rate is it? Fire rate caps out at 2 seconds max.
It's not math per se, more of a simulation. Because there is a GCD and doffs that proc here and there you can't just punch things up in an excel spreadsheet, which is why I resorted to creating a c++ console application instead. In this case, we fire torpedoes for approximately 75 simulated days (13000000 / 2 / 60 / 60 / 24) in order to average out doff procs.

The "N being half a second" comment isn't about how fast things fire -- half a second is merely our granularity. Torpedoes (aside from trics ofc) fire every 6.5, 8.5, or 10.5 seconds (even if the tooltip doesen't mention the half second, you can verify this by dividing the listed burst damage number of a weapon by it's listed DPS) so we need to check every half second if one is able to fire.

That being said, fire rate does not cap out at two seconds max. According to Cryptic, the GCD between torpedoes is one second. Of course, "according to Cryptic" isn't always to be trusted, but from my experience running a torpedo boat peak firing rate does indeed seem to be about one second. If someone can prove me wrong on this, I'll rerun the numbers with the new GCD value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
On a full torpedo boat (I run 4 torps front) there is not a huge decrease in DPS in fact there is a increase in DPS and burst.
Four torpedoes would definitely make the numbers closer since the rapids would suffer more cooldown congestion, but there's a reason I didn't model four torps -- based on our testing I think you're still better off using beams in a cruiser and cannons in an escort. The real value of running torps in carriers and science ships is that you can spec out of weapons energy and run full aux all the time. That being said, let's do it for kicks:

Numbers for four launchers:

With 0 doffs, rapids do 20.24% more DPS (same as with three torps. Makes sense given cooldowns)
rapid = 2138.96
regular = 1778.86

With 1 doff, rapids do 19.56% more DPS (rapids very slightly congested)
rapid = 2798.38
regular = 2340.47

With 2 doffs, rapids do 16.21% more DPS (rapids moderately congested)
rapid = 3426.91
regular = 2948.71

With 3 doffs, rapids do 11.27% more DPS (rapids significantly congested)
rapid = 3911.36
regular = 3515.31

So with four torpedoes, the regular transphasics only become worth considering over the rapids when you have three doffs equiped and you start seeing some significant cooldown congestion. That beind said, is an 11.27% DPS hit worth it for one more modifier and ever so slightly higher burst damage? Probably is if you can get an MK12[ACC]x3 for shooting escorts with high defense, but then the fact that we're comparing a torpedo worth quite a few million EC on the exchange to a free weapon you can get in ten minutes for completing a mission kind of shows things are out of whack, no?

Last edited by hurleybird; 08-29-2012 at 12:21 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 26
08-29-2012, 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfloresii View Post
But you still need at least [acc]x2 for pvp or you won't hit anything and there goes your dps.
I've been doing fine with single acc torpedoes on my torp boat. It's a purely subjective observation, but torpedoes seem to miss a lot less than beams and cannons do. Or maybe it's just that when we run torp builds whomever the torp boats are firing at tends to be locked down
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 831
# 27
08-29-2012, 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Four torpedoes would definitely make the numbers closer since the rapids would suffer more cooldown congestion, but there's a reason I didn't model four torps ??
What I do is either run 3 of the 10 second Transphasics torpedos and x1 Cluster. The cluster fires on the occasion the 3 torpedo do not trigger the doff cool down. Or x2 Rapid with x2 Cluster gives more DPS if the cluster is not shot down but this is less reliable. After a lot of testing I found these two setups the best from a pure Transphasics point of view. From a none pure Transphasics point of view x2 Rapid, x1 Clusteer, x1 Hargh'Peng works really well.

How does Fleet Transphasic fit into this? Would x3 Fleet beat x3 Rapid as the base damage for Fleet is even higher than normal and you have DMG x3. (not taking acc into account just dps)
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 831
# 28
08-29-2012, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
With 3 doffs, rapids do 11.27% more DPS (rapids significantly congested)
rapid = 3911.36
regular = 3515.31
Thinking about it there has to be something wrong with your or my testing. With x4 Transphasics you hit the speed cap pretty much all the time. 3 Rapid fire hit the cap so 4 should not gain any more DPS. 4 normal Transphasics hit the cap so should be pulling out more DPS not 11% less. Last time I tried 4 rapid I spent the whole battle with 1 torpedo being unable to fire due to the others cooling down so fast. With x4 normal the 4th torpedo still rarely managed to fire which is why I fitted in a Cluster.

Do not get my wrong, I like your post just I am not sure the numbers are matching up with what we get in game.

Last edited by pottsey5g; 08-29-2012 at 12:31 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 29
08-29-2012, 12:28 PM
Did the experiment include popping Aux2Batt before TBR? I was playing with hull attacks but running a plasma spread. Transphasics make more sense now that I think about it.

Thanks for the maths Jorf.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 30
08-29-2012, 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
Thinking about it there has to be something wrong with your or my testing. With x4 Transphasics you hit the speed cap pretty much all the time. 3 Rapid fire hit the cap so 4 should not gain any more DPS. 4 normal Transphasics hit the cap so should be pulling out more DPS not 11% less.
Not really, because the difference in damage per volley is so infinitesimally low. On the numbers I provided, regular transhpasics are only doing 2.73% more damage per volley. Even a small increase in firing rate is enough to overcome that.

That being said, there does seem to be some weirdness going on here -- MT's purple MK 12 regular transphasic was only doing 0.49% more damage per volley disregarding modifiers. Seems maybe like one type is benefiting from spec disproportionately? Sounds like a math bug on the part of Cryptic. Guess I'll need to do some further testing.
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