Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 1 Torp HY versus Torp Spread
08-30-2012, 08:47 PM
I want to know what exactly are the damage modifiers for Torp Spread are. When using Quantums with Torp High Yield 1 you get the following:

Quote:
Fires 2 Torpedoes, each dealing 111% of normal damage, (total 222% of normal), for Quantum Torpedoes.
However all the wiki says for Torp Spread 1 is this:

Quote:
Attacking up to three targets at once (3 clusters of 4 regular or 2 special torpedo).
All I know is when I do fleet alert I can hit a battleship with High Yield 1 Quantums and plink maybe 5 or 6 percent of its hull away. When an escort comes along and hits it with Torp Spread Quantums it nukes about 50% of its hull.

I am using 3 mark XI zero point quantum chambers. I figure each of my quantums should be hitting for around 150% to 170% normal damage (I'm not sure how they stack - diminishing returns?). So I don't know why my torpedoes suck.

I am wondering if I should start using torp spread, or maybe go to tricobalts? Any feedback would be appreciated.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,338
# 2
08-31-2012, 01:05 AM
To start, the consoles kinda have a diminishing return, in fact that they are boosting your base damage on your weapons. I'm curious about more of your build and skills, because it seems like you might have a torpedo boat, but I don't really know enough atm.

There's a lot of unknowns here, like an escort, even with a non-tac is gonna be unloading a lot of big damage, because they can unleash a massive HY or Spread 3. If a tactical is flying it, then all that damage is gonna be mega-buffed by tactical abilities (especially if they critical), plus the pure and simple fact that they are probably gonna rip down a shield facing before they do unleash the torps.

So, the fact that your HY 1 isn't hitting very hard compared to an escort unleashing a ****-ton of torpedoes isn't surprising, which isn't anything at all against you, OP, I'm not trying to say that.

But, to actually get to answering your question, I do believe that HY buffs the base damage, and then your skills are taken into account. Someone who knows the mechanics better can say more though. Spread doesn't so much buff your damage, as just unleash a heap of torpedoes to your targets, and all those clusters are gonna do a lot of damage. I mean, Spread 3 fires up to 5 targets, each target recieving 5 groups of 8 torpedoes (excluding tricobalts of course), to put a number for that, is TWO HUNDRED torpedoes possibly.

All that said, I'd recommend you stick to your quantums, and get a spread, because HY is nice, but even if you have only one target, it can be nicer to just hit with a large amount of torpedoes, because in the end, for most cases, the damage is roughly the same.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 3
08-31-2012, 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamiyama317 View Post
I want to know what exactly are the damage modifiers for Torp Spread are.
DPS Testing Over Range, and Ability Modifiers

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 172
# 4
08-31-2012, 01:42 AM
Interested to know more about the two as well!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 5
08-31-2012, 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
But, to actually get to answering your question, I do believe that HY buffs the base damage, and then your skills are taken into account. Someone who knows the mechanics better can say more though. Spread doesn't so much buff your damage, as just unleash a heap of torpedoes to your targets, and all those clusters are gonna do a lot of damage. I mean, Spread 3 fires up to 5 targets, each target recieving 5 groups of 8 torpedoes (excluding tricobalts of course), to put a number for that, is TWO HUNDRED torpedoes possibly.
Spread is sort of weird.

Despite the animation showing lots of torpedos hitting the target, the damage from each impact isn't directly comparable to normal torpedo hits.

However, the mechanic behind it is that each of the impacts on every foe hit by the ability triggers a small PBAoE - if you have a bunch of ships clustered within a few hundred meters of each other and use Torp Spread, then the splash damage from each impact on every ship hit will overlap; and the damage can stack up to crazy levels (never mind any extra damage from Warp Core Breaches resulting from those foes blowing up!)

And as is usual for kinetic damage, 75% of the damage inflicted will be lost if your target has any amount of shields up (even 1 point of shield will strip 75% damage) so it's VITALLY important to strip a shield facing down first before triggering Torp Spread. This is part of why you'll see "good" Escorts use energy weapon abilities such as "Beam Overload" before using a high-damage Torpedo ability (the other part is to inflict debuffs like Attack Pattern Beta on whatever targets you're about to nuke: APB3+CSV1+TS3 is a very good combination).

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 734
# 6
08-31-2012, 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
And as is usual for kinetic damage, 75% of the damage inflicted will be lost if your target has any amount of shields up (even 1 point of shield will strip 75% damage) so it's VITALLY important to strip a shield facing down first before triggering Torp Spread.
That does not appear to be true. Each shield point can stop 75% worth of Kinetic so 1point of shield will only stop 1 point of kinetic. Perhaps 2 points of kinetic if you round. Even at 75% a high end torpedo round will do ok damage to shields. 75% can still mean 1000 damage to shields after resistance.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 7
08-31-2012, 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
That does not appear to be true. Each shield point can stop 75% worth of Kinetic so 1point of shield will only stop 1 point of kinetic. Perhaps 2 points of kinetic if you round. Even at 75% a high end torpedo round will do ok damage to shields. 75% can still mean 1000 damage to shields after resistance.
The above would be logically sensible, but is not how it currently works. (assuming that there have been no undocumented "bugfixes" to the damage calculation mechanics in the last few months, which was the last time I personally tested this...)

Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance is applied and factored into the calculation before any damage is subtracted from your ship's current shield/hull values.

Old Thread discussing Mechanics

And post from here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archived Post View Post
Whenever a Torpedo hits you, two things happen:

#1: The bleedthrough damage is applied to your hull. This bleedthrough value is not affected by shield resistance, but IS affected by the shield type - e.g. normal shields have 10% bleedthrough, Resilient Shields have 5% bleedthrough. The damage from the bleedthrough then gets mitigated by your Kinetic Hull resistances.

We now take the remaining portion of the damage (90% for normal shields, 95% for resilient shields).

#2 (a): If you do NOT have ANY shields up, the entire damage value impacts your hull, ignoring your shield type's bleedthrough values and any shield resistances. It does get affected by your hull kinetic resistances, but you will take a LOT of damage.

#2 (b): If you have ANY shields up (even 1 point out of 15000), it deducts 75% of the damage. It doesn't get any strange modifiers applied, it just vanishes. 25% of the original torpedo damage then gets applied FIRST to the shield facing, with any Shield Damage Resistances applied.


If the Facing stays up, things stop here.

If the Facing drops, the remainder of the damage gets applied to your hull.
This remainder then gets reduced by your Hull Kinetic Damage Resistances.

If your Hull stays above 0%, you live, if not, you explode.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 734
# 8
08-31-2012, 04:43 AM
Not convinced that is correct as it does not match what I thought I was seeing in game. Although I haven?t done lots of testing and should double check. Will try and find time this weekend to test, should be easy enough.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 9
08-31-2012, 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
Not convinced that is correct as it does not match what I thought I was seeing in game. Although I haven?t done lots of testing and should double check. Will try and find time this weekend to test, should be easy enough.
I'm not a position to fire up a copy of the game at the moment, but I'd suspect the most surefire way to check would be to equip a low-mark covariant shield (to reduce capacity and regen as much as possible) and get someone to launch a steady stream of Quantums at your ship. The torp hits at the start should inflict very similar amounts of hull damage to the shot that drops your shield facing, but any shots after your facing completely drops should be ~4 times at strong. Redistributing shields should allow the 'hits on minimal shielding' test to be repeated a few times without too much fuss.

It's easiest to see in PVE versus Borg Heavy Plasma Torps - assuming that you survive being hit by one of these shots, the numbers you see in the damage log should be pretty accurate. (I seem to remember that any hits that manage to completely kill you don't properly display their resistance-reduced numbers in the combat log, but it should be easy enough to survive a shot from Normal Non-Tac Cubes for testing purposes...)

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 10
08-31-2012, 06:43 AM
Maelwy5 thank you for that DPS testing chart. It looks like I'm not doing anything wrong. I may still give tricobalts a try and see how they go.

Thanks so much for all of the replies. You have all been very helpful!
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