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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 162
# 21
08-29-2012, 07:30 AM
I really wanted the Fleet Vorcha, But just like on Fed side, The Oddy in Seperated mode, Is like the same thing.

It's some Cruiser/Escort Hybrid. With that kinda turn you can put Front Arc weapons, So you equip it like an escort. But why? Just get in an escort and do proper damage.
With the hybrid you waste a slot or two for an RCS to make turn more like an escort. Again why? Get in an esort. lol

Just IMO, but to me it feels like doing half a job.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 406
# 22
08-29-2012, 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthiasuicide View Post
I really wanted the Fleet Vorcha, But just like on Fed side, The Oddy in Seperated mode, Is like the same thing.

It's some Cruiser/Escort Hybrid. With that kinda turn you can put Front Arc weapons, So you equip it like an escort. But why? Just get in an escort and do proper damage.
With the hybrid you waste a slot or two for an RCS to make turn more like an escort. Again why? Get in an esort. lol

Just IMO, but to me it feels like doing half a job.
In a word...flexibility.

Specialization is fine when you have players who are willing to fill specific roles in the battle, such as in an established group who configure their ships knowing what the other members of their team will be fitting on their ships. This maximizes efficiency at the cost of having each member dependent on the others to be alive to accomplish the goal.

However, when you don't have that, or don't know what ships and/or professions will be on your team, there is strength in being able to switch instantly between multiple roles. This is especially true in PUGs. Being in an Escort is nice, until you realize no one is healing the ships you need to be escorting, and you fail because everyone thought DPS was the way to go. With a hybrid, you may not have the full abilities of specialization, but you can switch to be that healer when you find you need to be, and go back on attack as soon as that is done. Also as a hybrid, you can fill in for a ship that goes down so that the entire team doesn't get into trouble when one member is destroyed.

Sometimes, doing half a job is better than doing a full job at the wrong thing.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,522
# 23
08-29-2012, 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
I'm talking about cruisers in general, not about a specific KDF cruiser anyway. 99% of tacs on cruisers are noobs anyway, they play for themselves only and don't care about the rest of the team, so it proves my point. The tac on cruiser is the kind of solo guy playing for himself only.

And if you want to speak more specifically about the fleet vo'cha, no tac captain can fully support the power use of 7 or 8 turrets and cannons with CRF. The eng can, with EPS power transfer and nadion inversion (it's not supposed to lower the power use of weapon but it's a pretty efficient bug), and constantly maintaining power levels above 110-120 is always more important than the 15s dps boost from an attack pattern alpha.
i actually think theres more eng noobs then tac noobs in cruisers these days. only about 1 out of 10 players is smart enough to ever throw heals unfortunately, again regardless of ship or captain type.

the engineers energy buffing abilities might be considered useful IF there was a weapons energy hard cap of 125. but there isn't, with just EPtW1 and about 130 base power i can do an all DHC/turret CRF strike and not drop below 90 power or so.

also the difference between keeping your energy level high to get the max damage buff from energy and the damage buff you get from APA, GDF, and TF is so astronomical that 1 is literally twice the damage of the other, even if your energy level dips quite a bit. with that must boosted damage, you can spike and thats how you get kills. the damage an engineer can deal can be tanked indefinitely.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 47
# 24
08-31-2012, 03:53 AM
I got the fleet Tor'kath and never looked back on my Operations Bortas. Only 3k less hull, just as much shields, can have the same BO layout. Flying it as an engineer and it can tank like feck and still dish out. Flying it with probably sub-optimal phased polarons and 4 polaron tac consoles, and trolled the hell out of the tac cube without blowing up. Especially since the Puggies I and my feeltie were with didn't do squat. She was flying a roachmobile, and the two of us took out the tac cube without any help at all. And I just love the fact that I can use the mirror vor'cha skin on it, too
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
# 25
08-31-2012, 06:42 AM
Since the question pops up why a tac captain should fly a Tor'kaht here is my answer for PvE:

I can hold aggro from Donatra without a single point in thread control. Mostly with MK XI dispruptors. That I can do with my Raptor, too.
Then I can kite (and tank !) her till she pops. Can't do that with my Raptor, nor have I ever seen a "tanky" cruiser holding aggro vs. my Raptor.
For PvE, you just need "enough" tank. No brownie points for overtanking. On the other hand, you can never have too much damage.
An engineer with thread control may be able to tank and hold aggro, but he will do less damage.
The (sad) truth for PvE is, you don't need a specialized tank class to hold aggro and stay alive. You don't need a specialized healer class either.
Same can be applied to the probes in cure. With an escort/BoP I position myself carefully below the cube, so it can't hit me. With my battlecruiser, I just tank the fecking cube and use the full potential of my cannons at short range.

Since I run mostly with PuG's, I don't count on support from teammates.

I'm a tac in cruiser, and I do more damage than most engineers in escorts. What do you play ?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,450
# 26
08-31-2012, 02:22 PM
Update Edit to:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=12

To include Aux2Batt build.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 802
# 27
08-31-2012, 02:49 PM
Well, i do think for a tac captain the fleet vor'cha is good for PvE, but not so good for PvP.
To much loss of survival skills.
And call me a heretic, but i think in general the fleet vor'cha boff layout is horrible in general.
To separated, no focus.

I think the normal vor'cha retrofit is a better choice for a tac captain, while the fleet vor'cha is a better choice for a eng captain. Each augmenting the individual ships weaknesses, retrofit firepower, fleet survival.

If all you do is PvE the fleet is a very nice ship. It gets a lot more tricky with PvP however.

I still wish we could have the boff layout of the retrofit on the fleet version, with one change, shift the ensign tac over to the lt tac to make it a lt com tac.

-= ISE: 12:19 -=- CSE 12:41 -=- KASE 11:59 -=- HSe 8:06 total =-
-= KAGE 5:43 =-
[7:07] [Combat (Self)] Your Dual Disruptor Banks - Overload II deals 123086 (41096) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 47
# 28
08-31-2012, 10:23 PM
If you use a science in the universal, it gets the same layout that people suggested for the Operations Bortas, so it should deliver the same damage output. But I do agree it is more suited for PvE (as let's face it, everything in STO, aside from a few ships here and there). But I do think that tac captains would be better off in the Guramba, Roachmobile and the Fleet Scourge. I only know from the Fed side, but you could never get my tac into anything resembling a cruiser. I like to be a mobile weapons platform :p
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,522
# 29
09-01-2012, 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostusthorn View Post
Well, i do think for a tac captain the fleet vor'cha is good for PvE, but not so good for PvP.
To much loss of survival skills.
And call me a heretic, but i think in general the fleet vor'cha boff layout is horrible in general.
To separated, no focus.

I think the normal vor'cha retrofit is a better choice for a tac captain, while the fleet vor'cha is a better choice for a eng captain. Each augmenting the individual ships weaknesses, retrofit firepower, fleet survival.

If all you do is PvE the fleet is a very nice ship. It gets a lot more tricky with PvP however.

I still wish we could have the boff layout of the retrofit on the fleet version, with one change, shift the ensign tac over to the lt tac to make it a lt com tac.
if there weren't boffs in this game, i would agree with you. thanks to the right ones my fleet vorcha build is just as durable as my fleet ktinga/vorcha R build, it just has to gives up more team focused abilities. what it is is an escort with less spike potential and a worse turn rate but with durability an escort could only dream of. its like this

escort
firepower 6
defense 2

cruiser
firepower 3
defense 5

fleet vorcha
firepower 5
defense 4

its score total is 1 better, but that extra damage the escort can is what gives it a lot of its kills, and that extra defense in the normal cruiser is what keeps the team alive under the most intense pressure.

i have had extreamly good success in pvp with it, getting a ton of kills from alpha striking like an escort and being so durable that i cant be pressured to ever disengage. i could basically do what im doing now in a raptor as far as damage dealing goes, but the durability from full time EPtS3 and A2S3 make an absolutely huge difference.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 968
# 30
09-13-2012, 01:19 PM
Just got my fleet K'tinga. The thing is a beast, I have priority skill choices on all tanking abilities and the ship can take more of a beating than my normal Negh'var could. This is primarily thanks to the extra sci console and slightly better boff choices but still. I have only tried one pvp game with it and she performed amazingly. I was tanking 2 or 3 sci abilities all the time and only died once. Its turning ability is so good I can outfit it with dual cannons and normal torps with no RCS needed. I repeatedly decimated the tholian carrier and an armitage, it was glorious. The ship makes a great duelist, it excels at cruiser and sci sniping. My klink is an eng, and he was playing at just a shy step or two down from escort status dps, I can't recommend the ship enough.
In pve the thing can take down one sides probes in Khitomer after all the gens are down, solo cubes, and shrug off one shots like it was nothing when you activate the proper buffs. On cure i fly right next to the nanites and tank the cube till all low tier nanites are dead without letting a Bop get close to the Kaang.
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