Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 891
09-02-2012, 02:55 AM
A rainbow warrior its called (and its firepower is probably as good as yours)

A friend of mine flys a rainbow warrior (all cannons and turrets four different flavours) but his Tac consoles are all for his TORP systems (Tricobalt Fore and aft)

Its not what I would choose as a lay out but he claims to be armed with
Polaron tetryon Plasma and Disruptor
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 348
# 892
09-02-2012, 03:15 AM
rainbow or not rainbow is no point i also start run rainbow setup some weeks ago with great results, 5% more max dmg or multi proc, anyone have decide what he like more.


i run now on all ships rainbow setup only.
7 min stf runs are no prob with rainbow groups.

in cure is the only big pob kang in random groups one protect him but he cant handle or 4 prot him and the mission runs endless its always chaos in random groups.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 893
09-02-2012, 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmoony View Post
rainbow or not rainbow is no point i also start run rainbow setup some weeks ago with great results, 5% more max dmg or multi proc, anyone have decide what he like more.


i run now on all ships rainbow setup only.
7 min stf runs are no prob with rainbow groups.

in cure is the only big pob kang in random groups one protect him but he cant handle or 4 prot him and the mission runs endless its always chaos in random groups.
There are only two instances where you should be running "Rainbow weapons":

1. The first is if your weapons are all of the same energytype, you just have some with different coloured graphics than the 'standard' for that energytype. For example; if you were to equip Disruptor Induction Coils, you could use Standard Disruptors, Plasma-Disruptor Hybrids and Spiral Wave Disruptors. Or with Phaser Relays equipped, you could use Standard Phasers and Retrofit Phasers.

2. The second is if you are running only Torpedo/Mine enhancing Tactical consoles. "Pure Torpedo Boat" setups are generally worse DPS over time than Energy-Torpedo Hybrids, but a Tricobalt setup (mines in particular) could potentially put out some High Burst damage numbers.

Anything else just lets your ship look pretty, but makes you far less effective at killing stuff.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 894
09-02-2012, 03:53 AM
I do run one ship which mounts plasma Aft and Disruptors fore

Thats MY choice

And it still does more damage than most escorts over time
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 348
# 895
09-02-2012, 04:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
There are only two instances where you should be running "Rainbow weapons":
rainbow setup says for me different colors i run on 6 weapon ships tetryon+distruptors, shildsripping+hullresist reduce after shild is down.

and on 7-8 weapons ships i add AP for general dmg increase+ polaron,

that is 4 color setup then.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 896
09-02-2012, 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
I do run one ship which mounts plasma Aft and Disruptors fore

Thats MY choice

And it still does more damage than most escorts over time
Of course it's your choice.
We see plenty of people making that same choice all the time.

It doesn't change the fact that making that choice means that they are not capable of nearly as much damage output than if they had made a different choice.

Best case scenario: we assume that someone is sensible enough to slot "Directed Energy Distribution Manifolds" if they're running multiple beam energy types. On a typical ship, that's 3 Tactical Console slots granting a total of ~60% Damage, compared to the ~90% damage that they'd have managed to achieve running all the same energytype.

"Most escorts over time" is a bad yardstick to use when measuring things, because the majority of escorts that you encounter in PUGs will be, quite frankly, pants.

I regularly end up tanking Donatra on an Escort in PUG ESTFs groups, which means I need to weave about in order to keep her at least 5KM away and prevent her from cloaking, which tends to prevent me from bringing my DHCs to bear on her. However I often still end up holding aggro, even whenever there's other Escorts on my team firing flat out. If I can hold aggro over other PUG Escorts by using just my 3 rear turrets then there's something very, very wrong with their setups. Don't measure changes in your damage output by comparing it to other people's bad builds; measure it by the difference it makes to YOU.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]

Last edited by maelwy5; 09-02-2012 at 04:16 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 348
# 897
09-02-2012, 04:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
On a typical ship, that's 3 Tactical Console slots granting a total of ~60% Damage, compared to the ~90% damage that they'd have managed to achieve running all the same energytype.
.
and in reality the differenz is 5% like i sayed some posts befor thats why i switch to rainbow setup multi procs work for me better then 5% REAL max dmg differenz!

or so it says 970 dmg with 3x30 consoles and 930 dmg with 3x20% consoles.(beam)

Last edited by lostmoony; 09-02-2012 at 04:36 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 898
09-02-2012, 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmoony View Post
and in reality the differenz is 5% like i sayed some posts befor thats why i switch to rainbow setup multi procs work for me better then 5% REAL max dmg differenz!

or so it says 970 dmg with 3x30 consoles and 930 dmg with 3x20% consoles.(beam)
You're comparing addititive damage buffs after diminishing returns. So that value is unsuprising.

Even so, with every weapon cycle you have a 2.5% chance to trigger a proc (exception: Polarized Tetryons are 10% chance; and Antiprotons have a different mechanic). Is a 2.5% chance at a different proc really going to be better than 5% more net damage...?

As an example: Lets assume you're running with 6x Disruptor Arrays, and decide to swap out 3 of these for 3x Tetryons. And that in swapping out 3x Arrays for a different type, it reduces your net damage by that 5% figure you quoted earlier...

Weapon cycles (assuming no buffs) are 0.33 Cycles/Sec for DHCs/Cannons/Turrets and 0.20 for Beams.

With 3x Beam Arrays that's a cumulative potential of 0.60 cycles/second. Or an average proc activation chance of 0.025*0.6=1.5% every second. The shield drain provided by Tetryon Weapons will vary depending on your skillpoint allocation, but on my Tac with 9/9 points in Flow Capacitors, it's quoted as 523.7 Damage to shields. With the above proc activation chance of 1.5%/sec, that's an average of 7.8555 extra shield damage per second from all three arrays combined. Swapping out for Polarized Tetryons for their increased proc chance of 10% would grant a cumulative proc chance of: 0.1*0.6=6%/sec, bringing the drain up to 31.422 extra shield damage per second.

Now consider the DPS loss values you quoted above from swapping away from a same-energytype setup: 970-930=40 Damage from each of your six beam arrays, or 240 damage total - this is 30 times the average DPS increase you'd get from from swapping 3 arrays to "normal" Tetryons and 8 times the average increase from Polarized Tetryons.

And as an aside, swapping out three Disruptor arrays for Tetryons would mean you'd also drop from an average disruptor proc uptime of 36.6% (18x "2.5% chance" over 15 seconds) to 20.4% (9x "2.5% chance" over 15 seconds) which would result in you doing an average of 1.62% less Hull Damage over time (3.66%*10-2.04%*10). From the value you quoted for your six Beam Arrays, this would translate into an average loss of 90.396 Hull DPS: three times the additional Shield DPS you'd be getting from the Tetryons.


Bottom line:
You lose DPS from swapping away from a sametype-energy setup. Any additional damage potential you might gain from other procs is not ever going to cover this loss, it's just going to make you look pretty.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]

Last edited by maelwy5; 09-02-2012 at 06:15 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,939
# 899
09-02-2012, 06:35 AM
quite funny actually how this thread finally reached those people the thread was about in the beginning...captain kirks and rainbow warriors^^

ofcourse rainbow setup does more dmg than a one energy type setup...if you ignore mathematics and logic.

ofcourse it is everyones own choice...nobody is forced to use a setup that actually makes sense and is proven to be imba.

ofcourse it is possible to invent 20 different ways to maybe run through elite stfs successfull...it makes no sense to only use one, everybody is more or less familiar with.

ofcourse it makes perfect sense to use the one type of torpedo in stfs that the borg actually are able to shoot down, due to their often used fire at will ability.

and ofcourse this was all sarcasm.
Go pro or go home
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 348
# 900
09-02-2012, 07:39 AM
most players use weapons wrong like cannons on ranges like 8+km the result is loosing 70% main dmg/dps.


or players runnig with 50% energy on weapons STfs what result in 200% dmg loosing and some players will talk really about 5% differenz.

Last edited by lostmoony; 09-02-2012 at 07:42 AM.
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