Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 901
09-02-2012, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmoony View Post
most players use weapons wrong like cannons on ranges like 8+km the result is loosing 70% main dmg/dps.


or players runnig with 50% energy on weapons STfs what result in 200% dmg loosing and some players will talk really about 5% differenz.
1. 50% DPS loss at 8km, not 70%. It caps out at 60% at 10km.

2. The difference between 50 and 100 Weapons energy is a buff of +100% damage, not +200%.
(and that's an additive buff, so it'll end up much less - just like that "30% = 5% total damage" figure)

3. Dumb things other people do and a "rolleyes" smilyface still don't justify intentionally building a ship for less than optimal damage output.


[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]

Last edited by maelwy5; 09-02-2012 at 09:26 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 902
09-02-2012, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
I do run one ship which mounts plasma Aft and Disruptors fore

Thats MY choice

And it still does more damage than most escorts over time
Well in that case most Escorts you've flown with have been piloted by quadruple amputee monkeys.

I stonewall guarantee you that if you brought your Plasma/Disruptor ship into an STF with either my Armitage or my Garumba, I'd beat you for both DPS and damage over the whole event. And my Armitage isn't even optomised for personal DPS because I use APBIII as my Commander power to benefit the whole team rather than just myself with CRFIII or APOIII.

I'll happily test the theory with Infected Space and a combat parser if you want.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 387
# 903
09-02-2012, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skhc View Post
Well in that case most Escorts you've flown with have been piloted by quadruple amputee monkeys.

I stonewall guarantee you that if you brought your Plasma/Disruptor ship into an STF with either my Armitage or my Garumba, I'd beat you for both DPS and damage over the whole event. And my Armitage isn't even optomised for personal DPS because I use APBIII as my Commander power to benefit the whole team rather than just myself with CRFIII or APOIII.

I'll happily test the theory with Infected Space and a combat parser if you want.
my voquv can ad will out damage him (not dps wise, but total damage over the whole match) and thats on kang duty
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 904
09-02-2012, 11:50 AM
Golden rule

Multiply an escorts DPS by 15
Multiply a cruisers by 45

compare

As a cruiser is on target for 45 seconds and an escort for 15 (if its played as an escort)

not talking static turret escorts here (very high damage totally useless to the team)

An escort should NEVER slow down or stop moving and should exist to clear fast moving enemies off a slower moving command ship (like the Kang)

Either that or it should take people to dinner
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 384
# 905
09-02-2012, 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
1.
2. The difference between 50 and 100 Weapons energy is a buff of +100% damage, not +200%.
()
that dmg lose on 8km can be 50% not 70 is possible.

but 50% vs 100% i dont know if it scale 1:1.

but i know i loose insane dmg if i switch from
from 125 to 70 thats a total of 55 energy lowering that ends fr me in 650dmg in autoattak to 280dmg so its ~180% dmg loose with 55 energy points.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 906
09-02-2012, 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Golden rule

Multiply an escorts DPS by 15
Multiply a cruisers by 45

compare

As a cruiser is on target for 45 seconds and an escort for 15 (if its played as an escort)

not talking static turret escorts here (very high damage totally useless to the team)
You know I thought a while after posting that I'd dropped the ball a little by issuing a challenge across a web forum. It's the kind of crap I normally don't pull and it makes me look like a bellend.

But then you go and post this nonsense. And what's more, you believe it.

I can keep things in front of me for much longer than 15 seconds at a time without dying, even in groups of 5 Escorts with no cross-healing. You're pulling stuff out of your backside to try and justify your belief that the damaging dealing class of starship doesn't actually deal the most damage, when in actual fact a properly built and flown Escort will out-DPS a properly built and flown anything else. That is an Escort's job.

I'm not saying you need 5 Escorts in STFs and that Cruisers are useless. That's an attitude that annoys me as well as you. What I am saying, though, is that Escorts deal the most damage. Nothing wrong with Cruisers or Carriers, but Escorts will always win the damage battle if their pilot has a brain.

We can test this plain and simple - We both go into an Infected run, and I'll fire up my combat parser. We'll forget DPS becuase you have some sort of belief it's inaccurate, and go for total damage over the STF. I will beat you on that (because I beat every cruiser I've parsed myself against, and if I didn't, I should stop playing the game) rendering any nonsense about multiplying DPS over the match irrelevant.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 907
09-02-2012, 12:26 PM
I don't have an expendable RA at the moment (I do each arc of STF exactly once) as assimilated is dead (sort of a house rule) but next time i have someone running the gauntlet ill try and get in touch with you and rig a ship specially to demonstrate this


but you talk about escort pilots with brains
Well I saw TWO escort pilots sit within 5 km of the starbase and turn on the spot for an entire fleet alert
Interestingly they both blew up a LOT

they seemed to think the han solo mode (turrets top and bottom) would be most efficient

it isn't

an escort is basically a very large fighter
its job is to swoop and sweep
its not DESIGNED to win battles on its own (nor is a standard class cruiser)
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14,302
# 908
09-02-2012, 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skhc View Post
That's true enough. You know you're not optomising your DPS, and are making the decision to do that. I don't see why, since Rainbows don't give you anything pratical in exchange for the DPS loss. I'm sure you can get by in spite of it, but I could get by just fine by removing a DHC from my Armitage and leaving the slot empty, it still doesn't make it a good idea. But you understand the game mechanics. Which means you probably understand a lot about the game and play to a decent level accordingly, even with rainbows.

But most people with rainbows simply don't realise that they're gimping their damage output. And if they don't do enough critical thinking to realise that a Phaser Relay gives a greater damage boost than a Directed Energy Modulator when it's written in front of them, then chances are there's lots of stuff they don't realise about the game - such as power leves, console selection and that blowing up Nanite generators sequentially instead of simultaneously makes bad things happen.

Hence why it's associated with noobishness, and why most ships firing rainbows tend to do about as much damage as a stiff solar wind.

And when you say 'several seasons ago' when do you mean? Because it was an even worse idea to run Rainbows when I started playing the game (December 2010) than it is now.
I'm a 400 day vet. I started playing a few months before the debut of Duty officers. At that time, Phaser Relays had (approximately) the same bonus as Directed energy manifolds. Then again, back then they were more confusing....

A lot of NooBs have no optimization to their ships at all, and run random weapons that have the best damage they can find. Honestly.... it's not a very bad policy if you're a commander or lower... at that level you're better off using cobbled-together junk and focussing on leveling. Sure optimization would increase your DPS and survivability in missions, but by the time you got your ship optimized the gear would be obsolete due to you leveling....

Now that I think about it.... Wasn't the Phaser skill and the other damage type skills Admiral level stuff? that might explain why I never bothered... None of my chars made admiral before Doffs were added to the game.

Anyways, the way things work currently, the bonus of tactical consoles is calculated seperately from other damage boosts, and honestly isn't awe inspiring....

Number shaped objects:
Antiproton beam array MK XI [CrtH][Dmg]x2
With 2 +16.2% consoles: 208.2 DPS (It's a first edition Oddy, it only has 2 tac console slots)
With 1 console: 195.2 DPS
with no consoles: 182.2 DPS

sooo... I get +13 DPS per console, sure I could do somewhat higher damage with damage type consoles, but meh....
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 387
# 909
09-02-2012, 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
I'm a 400 day vet. I started playing a few months before the debut of Duty officers. At that time, Phaser Relays had (approximately) the same bonus as Directed energy manifolds. Then again, back then they were more confusing....

A lot of NooBs have no optimization to their ships at all, and run random weapons that have the best damage they can find. Honestly.... it's not a very bad policy if you're a commander or lower... at that level you're better off using cobbled-together junk and focussing on leveling. Sure optimization would increase your DPS and survivability in missions, but by the time you got your ship optimized the gear would be obsolete due to you leveling....

Now that I think about it.... Wasn't the Phaser skill and the other damage type skills Admiral level stuff? that might explain why I never bothered... None of my chars made admiral before Doffs were added to the game.

Anyways, the way things work currently, the bonus of tactical consoles is calculated seperately from other damage boosts, and honestly isn't awe inspiring....

Number shaped objects:
Antiproton beam array MK XI [CrtH][Dmg]x2
With 2 +16.2% consoles: 208.2 DPS (It's a first edition Oddy, it only has 2 tac console slots)
With 1 console: 195.2 DPS
with no consoles: 182.2 DPS

sooo... I get +13 DPS per console, sure I could do somewhat higher damage with damage type consoles, but meh....
multiply it by 8 (number of beam arrays) and the multiply it by 2 (weapon power at 100+) so its about 450 dps boost, which is 225 per consol. thats big for a cruiser, even more effect on an escort, which means big dps loss on skittle boat.
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 387
# 910
09-02-2012, 04:11 PM
lets go back to bad stf experiences before syber comes in with his 'banwagon' and destroys the longest standing no-necroed thread in sto history
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
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