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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
# 61
08-31-2012, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchngc View Post
Strictly speaking, it is not random, as there is a definite pattern which precludes it being entirely random. In addition, we are talking about a computer program, meaning, by default it has to follow a set of rules and equations which may simulate the appearance of randomness (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) but it can not be truly random. So the question becomes "how reasonable a facsimile is it?" and if you can fins definite patterns I'd say it isn't a very good one, for instance, for every stack of 25 "White Science Fleet DOFFs" I have opened I get 6 Medical DOFFs (this has held true for all 10 stacks of 25 I have opened, a sample size of 250 DOFFs) and the % listings I posted earlier seem to hold fairly true (slight deviations, but I haven't decompiled enough DOFFs for a Sample size large enough to nail down the exact %, assuming that would even be possible)
I have opened over 3000 fleet doff packs and have got approx 500 flight deck officers out of 38 possible doffs(no civilians are issue)

now how likely is that to be random - if I had a bucked and put each of the 38 doffs as a action figure into it and asked people to pull out a doff but they lose points/money for each flight deck officer they pick - everyone would not say that's random - they would say "that's fixed"

Last edited by levi3; 08-31-2012 at 12:11 PM.
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,126
# 62
08-31-2012, 01:04 PM
Folks, a casual fly-by of this thread has shown me a lot of name-calling and other flamish/trollish posting.

I could go back and start moderating this thread from the first insult, or I could just close it.

I'd rather people stop throwing insults around and maybe go back and edit some posts before they have to be moderated.

If you must criticize someone else's position and demolish their arguments, please do it politely.

Cheers

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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 425
# 63
08-31-2012, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Folks, a casual fly-by of this thread has shown me a lot of name-calling and other flamish/trollish posting.
Sadly, as I stated here, The DOFF section has descended into name-calling and general rudeness now that no one (Devs) seem to care about giving feedback. We used to be one of the most (if not the most) civilized groups on here.

Part of the past civility I think was that the Dev in charge (Heretic) was seen to actually care about this part of the game and at least pretended to take our constructive criticism (as such our criticism tended to lean toward the constructive end of the scale more often). Now we have become like the rest of the forum (I see threads that descend into anarchy all over these forums) because, as I see it, there is no more Dev feedback. As such, our frustration with this game builds up, and eventually gets released in derailing threads (and forcing them to be closed by moderators) with attacks at our fellow gamers.

Personally, I find it a sad commentary on the individuals posting here as a whole, but at least I can take solace in the fact that is is virtually universal throughout this forum (not unique to the DOFFs Section) as well as in most forums for MMO games (as in most MMO games Devs act the same way they do here and either Don't post at all, post in vague fluffness, or only post in designated Dev posts and in generally off topic threads, like those in Ten Forward.) Not to say it is justified, just glad to see it isn't just STO or DOFFing.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 447
# 64
08-31-2012, 02:12 PM
In my experience, calling attention to alleged rudeness is more often than not a catalyst for unproductive discourse rather than any supposed rudeness itself. It's a form of passive-aggressive behavior.

I am curious why Bluegeek complained about perceived rudeness several days after the discussion in this thread was already over, but immediately after a PWE advocate who had been arguing in a similar style and along similar lines (persistently making obviously faulty claims about the doff system, trying to get players to accept a Dil nerf) had been discredited in another thread.

Nor am I at all sure to what rudeness Bluegeek is referring. The previous page was simple discussion about speculation, with no interpersonal commentary at all, and the pages before that were analysis of an argument by way of comparison with facts and experience. Pretty substantial stuff.

Perhaps you could show us where you feel the discussion was improper, Bluegeek?

Last edited by aestu; 08-31-2012 at 02:36 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 65
09-03-2012, 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
If you must criticize someone else's position and demolish their arguments, please do it politely.
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, people can really become aggressive when they feel you act against their very own little interest. And the fact is that they will agree with instant and easy rewards, but not with someone defending the interest of those who actively play the game, especially if they aren't good enough at it to take huge advantages from their knowlegde.

To make it clear they are angry because some people make profits on the exchange and some others have to pay because they want the stuff and they don't know how to easily get it - and they are in the paying camp.

So FYI everyone, the easy CXP comes from exploration mission - the reclain artifact ones. With the right doffs you can crit 22%. 5k cxp if you crit a blue, 2.5k if you crit a green (I don't remember exactly how much, it could be a bit less) and with purple doffs only these missions reward around 1k each on success. You can't really fail them. You can find them everywhere, there are several in every sector. Like I said, 15 minutes at most.

I'm curious about the next useless and tedious small argument you will find to say that it's impossible, because it is, I've run some tests and you can definitely make 20k cxp a day with this.

If you have some more available slots (it happens) you might start a hamlet (7k dev cxp on crit) or an orion syndicate + the 3 days survival mission (5k cxp on crit). I must be forgetting some other missions; you'll have to find them.

Even if you don't crit them the rewards are sufficient to allow you to make 20k a day, no matter what useless detail you'll find to say I'm wrong.

Now that this thread has become a "how to break the doff system and get instant rewards", enjoy a pointless game, I gave you a way to remove any challenge from the starbase system, and you might even be able to get the holy grail, the zero interaction with other players 'one man starbase'.

Last edited by diogene0; 09-03-2012 at 08:53 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,076
# 66
09-03-2012, 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
So FYI everyone, the easy CXP comes from exploration mission - the reclain artifact ones. With the right doffs you can crit 22%. 5k cxp if you crit a blue, 2.5k if you crit a green (I don't remember exactly how much, it could be a bit less) and with purple doffs only these missions reward around 1k each on success. You can't really fail them. You can find them everywhere, there are several in every sector. Like I said, 15 minutes at most.
If you think these are the best ways to earn cxp then you're doing it wrong. It's not the worse way by any means, but 22% crit chance is rather small. The problem is that there are no purple science doffs that have both efficient + teamwork without having multiple negative traits. If you're going to "break the system" at least do it with a metal bat and not a whiffle ball bat.

BTW, what you're doing is not breaking the system. It's called playing STO and sinking game-earned resources into a revolving door that spits out less than you put in (especially now that you get 1 dil. per white doff released). If you can't figure out the exploration missions are not the best for CXP, then I guess I can't expect you to figure out that what you're doing is actually what the devs. intended for people to do.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 67
09-03-2012, 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
If you think these are the best ways to earn cxp then you're doing it wrong. It's not the worse way by any means, but 22% crit chance is rather small. The problem is that there are no purple science doffs that have both efficient + teamwork without having multiple negative traits. If you're going to "break the system" at least do it with a metal bat and not a whiffle ball bat.

BTW, what you're doing is not breaking the system. It's called playing STO and sinking game-earned resources into a revolving door that spits out less than you put in (especially now that you get 1 dil. per white doff released). If you can't figure out the exploration missions are not the best for CXP, then I guess I can't expect you to figure out that what you're doing is actually what the devs. intended for people to do.
If you read the OP breaking the system is only about fleet doffs and fleet doffs only. I don't mind about fleetmarks, this is a useless currency since most of the starbase stuff is inferior to the lockbox one.

I gave a way to make 10k white doffs with a T2 starbase in a small fleet; with the last changes you can create even more white doffs.

I gave these tips about assignment because they were insisting and became to insult me because I frustrated them when I said no. I didn't mean to give the most efficient way to generate tons of cxp, shorter assignments give better rewards. I gave a way to generate 20k cxp in 15 minutes a day, which is a completely different challenge.

Of course it's playing the game but anyway, this starbase stuff offers no challenge for poor rewards, but in the meatime the devs found a way to kill the doff system, which is the best fail of season 6. Fleet doffs shouldn't even exist if they want people to play the doff system, and it's a bit annoying to see that the devs are quick to kill some parts game because some people don't want to play this specific part of it, while some other people were enjoying it a lot.

It's obvious that the starbase system isn't working as intented, it shouldn't be a challenge at all if you play smart and you'll get plenty of rewards you couldn't get before season 6 without playing the game (doffing), and now you'll get them without playing much. No challenge and the doff system killed, that's not something I call "content" for the game. The starbase is now only a long road between cooldowns with this epic fail doff vendor.

25k fleet credits for a purple doff at T5, when everyone will run with 10M or so of fleet credits is an insult for genuine doffers.

Last edited by diogene0; 09-03-2012 at 09:55 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,076
# 68
09-03-2012, 11:01 AM
I agree about the killing doffing part. Once bases hit T5 (or is is T4?) there's going to be a flood of purple doffs on the market and in people's inventory. It wasn't so easy to get even my very first purple doff, much less a full roster. Now, everyone, even players that hardly ever use the doff system other than click spamming to fill it up, will be able to have a full purple roster.

BUT, I still don't agree that your OP represents any type of system breaker, no matter how many times you repeat yourself. You're still inputting massive amounts of time and resources and receiving less in return, even with your rotating door theory.

Now, your way to generate 20k cxp in 15 minutes is also an exaggeration. I don't remember exact numbers,but I'm pretty sure your numbers are high. On success with Purple doffs I remember you get around 850 for the uncommon missions, but I don't remember the crit numbers so we'll just go with yours. Let's say you visit 4 or 5 systems and pick up 5 of these uncommon "Artifact" missions and 1 rare, which is about the average you can find per session if you're trying to do them every day.

I get 22% crit chance on the uncommons (combined 8% failure/disaster rate) and 26% chance on the rares (13% combined failure/disaster rate). So you will fail 1 every other day and you will only crit 1 per day (or on average a little over 1). We'll say the one you crit is the rare one to make up for rounding down to 1, which will inflate the numbers somewhat, but no matter.

(850x5)+5,000[even though this number is probably an exaggeration on your part like this entire thread]=9,250. 9,250=/=20,000 And this is not even taking into account that you will fail some of them contrary to your claim of guaranteed success (unless of course you want less crit chance and use 2 research lab scientists, but I do this mission for the crit rewards and the cxp is just a nice byproduct).

You exaggerate the results of this process by more than double just as you exaggerate the ease of completing the fleet bases.

Last edited by skurf; 09-03-2012 at 11:18 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 69
09-03-2012, 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
You exaggerate the results of this process by more than double just as you exaggerate the ease of completing the fleet bases.
Not if you choose to put 15 recover artifiact missions and fill the rest of your 20 slots with some random mission. You can usually get 2-3 recover artifact in each sector. I know very few people will focus on getting such a weird and specific roster but it's definitely possible.

My point is to prove that there's a way to get a T5 starbase without any difficulty even if you barely play the game in a 10 people fleet. Yes you need to heavily use specific game mechanics but it's doable with the fleet vendor stuff. The remarks I made about fleetmarks are here to give an easy way to get them without really playing the game since it looked impossible for some people here, but it's not the core of this topic. TBH I don't care if people easily get loads of fleetmarks without playing the pve missions. This topic is about the leaks of the doff vendor.

Last edited by diogene0; 09-03-2012 at 11:28 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,076
# 70
09-03-2012, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Not if you choose to put 15 recover artifiact missions and fill the rest of your 20 slots with some random mission. You can usually get 2-3 recover artifact in each sector. I know very few people will focus on getting such a weird and specific roster but it's definitely possible.

My point is to prove that there's a way to get a T5 starbase without any difficulty even if you barely play the game in a 10 people fleet. Yes you need to heavily use specific game mechanics but it's doable with the fleet vendor stuff. The remarks I made about fleetmarks are here to give an easy way to get them without really playing the game since it looked impossible for some people here, but it's not the core of this topic. TBH I don't care if people easily get loads of fleetmarks without playing the pve missions. This topic is about the leaks of the doff vendor.
In case you haven't noticed the fleet doff vendor sucks unless you want a bunch of flight deck officers or warfare specialists. Then you can upgrind them and break them back down, but this costs dilithium not to mention diminishing returns of 3:5. Everything people have said to you in this thread just goes in one ear...err, eye and out the other.

And please please please stop exaggerating so much. You can't do 15 recover artifact missions per day. Even if you could find 15 of them one day (which btw I have never ever seen), the next day they would all be on cooldown so you'd be lucky to find a single one. Even though there are many different missions of this type, they do have cooldowns, which I think is about a day for the uncommons and it seems longer for the rare missions. Take a screenshot with 15 of these "Artifact" missions running or this is just another blatant exaggeration. I've been doing these missions for months because of the Strange Artifact reward. I've had around 8 or 9 running at one point when I hadn't recently done any in the past, but the next day I could only find 1 or 2 because of the cooldowns. I don't even think there are 15 separate artifact missions, much less 15 that pop all at once.

Last edited by skurf; 09-03-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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