Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 191
09-05-2012, 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
Honestly outside of a 1 on 1s... beams where never a viable option on escorts imo.

Really I don't know why some people resist Cannons so hard on escorts... I mean there THE perk for choosing to fly an escort. Dual Cannons CAN NOT be used on anything else. (a few cruiser) really though they are the highest DPS weapon in the game why would you choose anything else for an escort. It would be like an player in a Fantasy MMO deciding to use a bow on there melee DPS toon.... Cannons = Melee DPS... get in close and knife em... its how it works.

1 on 1 yes they can still work vs other escorts... really though Target Subs are pathetic... even in there 3 versions.... Beam Overload Spike dmg is terrible. When it was a good spike it was still best to only run one beam and stick to cannons as the bread and butter.

I guess in short I'm sayin na there not a viable option at all.... One for Beam overload can still work... but with the way acc works now you are likely to miss more then its worth for the power drain....

4 DHC...
or
2-3 DHC with torps... (2 torps now with doffs is very viable)

Seem to me those are the 2 real escort setups right now that work given the state of healing.... going anything else is just counter productive.
I'd just like to pop in and say 3 DHCs and a DBB still works, on an mvam, providing you are carrying stuff like TBR (with the engine power drain doff,) or VM. (with system doffs) Skill wise it is also very efficient which lets you easily spec for VM.

3 DHCs and a Torp also seems to still work well as well, but don't even bother with HY1. Due to the way Acc works now, HY1 has an absurd miss rate, and it's damage bonus is no longer enough to get good solid crits anymore. HY2, is still bar none the best bang for the buck in terms of sheer burst potential, in addition the 3 DHC single torp option also opens up Torp Spread, which is right now critically important to have as a fall back option. You're pretty much down to using Particle Gens, gravitons, or energy drain when you spec for torps though. (also torp speccing increases mine damage which makes the Dispersal Pattern Tric mines even more hilarious)
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 366
# 192
09-05-2012, 06:56 AM
Thanks for answer.

It's not that I oppose DHC that hard. They simply look stupid on Advanced Escort. I play DHCs on Fleet Escort, but AE?

And why beamscorts were not viable for PvP in the old times? I remember some players flying their AE with beams (for some reason FE was not very popular and I think it's still so) and some fiery discussions on the forums about some advanced players, their beamscorts and how they do it. Heck, I think those were times when people were seriously discussing about what's better: 2xDC or 3xDHC.

Anyway - thank you again.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,212
# 193
09-05-2012, 07:08 AM
In my experience, beam escorts work just fine, and are very viable vs. all-cannon escorts - simply because the combination of a BO every 15 seconds, buffed by Attack patterns and a good broadside to keep the pressure up will do more effective DPS against ships that absolutely need to keep you in their front arc to do damage, but are only marginally more nimble, if at all.

6 single beams, one torp (aft or fore does rarely matter), 2x TT, 2x BO, 1xTS or THY. 1 APO1, 1 APO3. Worked fine for me, just try if it does for you.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 194
09-05-2012, 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Worked fine for me
In what 1 v 1s right ? If your building for 1 on 1s sure beams can work...

In a team game there is no place for an all beam escort... frankly why ?
You can run the same setup + an extra beam on a bunch of cruisers... what advantage would you get on the escort ? Omega 3 ?

Its pointless all beams is done better by a cruiser... so why choose the much more fragile escort. There are no issues keeping arc... so the extra bit of turn is really not an issue. I can't honestly think of one good reason....
zarathos1978 when you speak of back in the day when beam escorts could work... there where pretty much no cruisers with lt. cmd tac boff slots... there are plenty now.

If you have a hankering for beams... run a cruiser with a Lt Cmd Tac, and you have the same thing you would run on an escort + the ability to run DEM, a ton more heals... and gain a good 20% in shield and hull.

Beam escorts work in a 1 on 1 cause you can exploit firing arc blind spots by spiraling up on z.... in a real match against a team, its not going to work for you.

It also applies almost no spike... beam overload is your only spike option and frankly your not going to be taking anyone from 30% to dead with beam overload anymore outside of a very rare high dmg crit. It simply doesn't hit as high as it used to... also most people seem to think (and I think I agree) that something is bugged with Overload 3 as it seems to miss a good deal more then overload 2... running 2 of course reduced that high end crit dmg.

Really for the most part when I see a beam escort I ignore them... the beam cruisers do more dmg.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 195
09-05-2012, 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post

... seem to think (and I think I agree) that something is bugged with Overload 3 as it seems to miss a good deal more then overload 2... running 2 of course reduced that high end crit dmg.
Bo3 seems to miss more than bo2. But I am 100% sure the acc modifier works for Bo. I had a test with a buddy and one time I had ctrdx3 and the other time accx3. Bo3 hits more reliable with accx3. But still, bo3 seems to miss more than bo2. The only reliable way to hit with bo3 is to slow the target somehow and reduce its defense (cronitrons, beam target engine, etc)
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 196
09-05-2012, 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
Really for the most part when I see a beam escort I ignore them... the beam cruisers do more dmg.
Really? I sometimes go out of my way to kill beamscorts and anyone using a rainbow build over and over then PM after the game and offer them assistance on NOT doing it again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 101
# 197
09-05-2012, 10:14 AM
Hi folks, I need some advice please so I thought I would ask here rather than spam a new thread.

I'm new to STO and after what seems like not much effort, my engineer is at lvl 50 - but I haven't yet requisitioned my last freebie ship.

I don't really want to be playing a slow turning slug, and a couple of friends who used to play STO some time back recommended escort - but I'm not sure whether I should be choosing the Advanced Escort or the Patrol Escort.

I've checked the build planner on stoacademy, which doesn't even include the patrol escort as an option, and although I've figured out some of the game mechanics, and read some of the discussion threads, I'm having real difficulty figuring out the Boff abilities (because of all the abbreviations) and how they interact.

The difference between the two ship types appears to be simply one ensign Boff and one console(engineering or science) - what are the advantages of either choice?

Which skill+console would be the preferred setup for this extra slot if the accepted wisdom is to use tactical team for the ensign level skill on both tactical Boffs to keep the forward shields up?

The whole skill point system is so obtuse that I still have a couple of hundred thousand skill points to spend, so hopefully with a little help I can avoid the worst of the noob-errors and have a solid setup that will allow me to concentrate on learning to fly my ship well rather than getting frustrated because my build is severely flawed.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,212
# 198
09-05-2012, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
In what 1 v 1s right ? If your building for 1 on 1s sure beams can work...
They work everywhere. It is just that orthodoxy does not allow them, so few people do it, and then Sturgeon's Law applies.

Quote:
In a team game there is no place for an all beam escort... frankly why ?
You can run the same setup + an extra beam on a bunch of cruisers... what advantage would you get on the escort ? Omega 3 ?
One more Commander and one more Lt Commander Slot, plus more speed and maneuverability.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 199
09-05-2012, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
They work everywhere. It is just that orthodoxy does not allow them, so few people do it, and then Sturgeon's Law applies.
Nice try Soph... anyone that knows me knows I don't run the standard build, ever. People more knowledgeable then yourself have tried it, it is lacking and then some... yes it is only good in a 1 v 1 against another escort as you can use there arc and the buggy nature of the Z axis to make them work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
One more Commander and one more Lt Commander Slot, plus more speed and maneuverability.
Well there are NO beam skills in the commander slot... so you are saying giving up 20% hull and shield at least and another weapons slot is worth having omega 3 ? ok then.

One more lt. commander slot.... pointless again... what for 2 copies of target sub 3.... sure I guess but really again is it worth the trade of engi slots and shield and hull... I doubt it.

More maneuverability.... sure ya... its really not needed if your plan is to spam a bunch of high arc beam arrays... not to mention the fact that the best ships for a tac beam cruiser have turn rates that are almost as good as slower escorts... and honestly with a couple rcs units make better ships anyway.

Last edited by husanakx; 09-05-2012 at 03:28 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 200
09-05-2012, 07:28 PM
And this being said, a tac in a dps cruiser will slaughter an escort (considering close skills of opponents), especially a beamscort. And it's perfectly normal since this game is not ballanced in 1-1. And as a cruiser you have more heals, heck, only with bfi doffs and evasives between tt you can tank the burst of an escort. Then the only avoidance of escort to not loose is to run away. I've never seen a point to fly a beamscort other than just for plain fun. Efficient, no way.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
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