Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
# 1 The PVP Engineer Escort
09-05-2012, 10:54 PM
In the recently trending thread Tactical Captain Buffs and Sci Powers there's been a few interesting comments regarding the humble PVP Engineer. The basic comments boil down to the underwhelming performance of Engineer Captains when stood next to their Science and Tactical kin.

As a player who plays an Engineer Captain as his main this has disturbed me, and I was wondering are Engineer Escort builds viable in a PVP setting or is their only real place behind a cruiser/science vessel throwing out heals, phaser procs and/or spam?

Speaking from an optimised perspective we all know the answer is, generally, the later. But if we had to, were forced to, how would we make an Engineer Escort work?

Here's my attempt, your feedback, alternative builds and advice would certainly be appreciated.

I'm using the Fleet Tactica Escort Retro, it comes with a 5th tactical console with which I'm trying to eek out as much damage potential as possible. Also with the shield remodulation and emergency heal that come as the Engineers unique abilities we should be able to cope with this more fragile escort.

Those not interested in the link above here's the BOF layout:

Comm Tac: TT1, CSV1, APO1, CRF3
Lt Com Tac: TT1, APB1, APO1
Ens Tac: IwishIwasDead
Lt Eng: EPS1, EPS2
Lt Sci: PH1, HE2

DOF Setup:
Energy Wep. Reduce cooldown of canon special attacks.
Conx2. Reduce cooldown of evasives.
Shield Distro. Shield heal on brace for impact.

Ship layout:
Fore Weapons: 4xDHC
Rear Weapons: 3xTurrets
Disruptors to help the real damage dealers (as well as yourself).

Deflector: Borg
Impluse: Borg
Shield: M.A.C.O

Tac Consoles: 5xDisruptor+
Eng Consoles: Neutronium, Borg, Theta
Sci Consoles: Field Genx2

For a more aggressive setup (for instance in a premade where you have a trusted healer) you could swap the borg deflector and engine with the omega to get the glider happening.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 574
# 2
09-06-2012, 12:13 AM
IMO its a good start. I would still advise to put an acc x3 beam in the rear. You can use it to replace apb with a bo2 and iwishiwasdead with target engine. Or bo1. As an engi you can use nadion inversion (thats the power boost if i remember correctly) and chain 2 bo consecutively, since nadion compensates the bo power drain easily. I use it and like it. I think borg 3 pc will help a lot with your heals too. I would use 3 bfi doffs though (you get an almost 100% chance to proc a heal), instead of 2 evasive doffs you can use deutherium should the need arise. For normal, non pet heavy pvp, use crf rather than csv. I know what you're thinking, with the cannon doffs, but my believe is you'd get more benefits from bfi doff than from cannon ones. You can always have a spare boff to swap when you see lots of pets around or should you need aoe attacks. Unless in a premade, with a dedicated healer, youd use more bfi doffs.

Unfortunately, disruptor is one of the weakest energy weapons IMO right now (and I have plenty as a kling), if it's not hard for you get phasers, lolarons or Tetryon. Of course, acc x3 is best, but acc x2 would also work. Lolarons are great if you are speced in flow capacitors, since that increases the drain. If you go this way, also you could replace the sci consoles with flow ones, to be even worse with drain. Try a turn console instead of theta and see if you like it, especially when fighting bug. Even though theta and cloack would work well together. I know some great escort pilots like cpt h use only eps1, the other eng is aux to id. That's called skill shield. Lol. Not lastly read Husanak's escort thread, I remember somewhere through the pages he mentioned an engi escort:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=255864

Well, that's what I would do/try, but what's most important is for you to like it.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 3
09-06-2012, 12:29 AM
Engineer escorts just don't work in PvP. They can work in carriers and science ships, kind of, but they are really only at home in a cruiser.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
# 4
09-06-2012, 06:57 AM
Thanks for the reply trueprom3theus, food for thought using a couple of copies of BO...

Indeed hurleybird I know an Eng in a 'scort will never hit like a tactical captain, they just aren't optimised for it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 5
09-06-2012, 10:05 AM
I will apologize in advance if I will hurt anyones feeling because (most likely) you fly a Engi Escort yourself,

But here I go;

I never flew this combo, but I know how weapons and the Engi powers work.

-----

EPS Transfer: Useless for a Escort with Cannons, the DPS increase in this scenario is almost negligable. Suppose it could be handy in a few other scenarios.

Nadion Inversion: Almost just as useless.

The only scenario for damage output I could think of these abilities to be 'somewhat' useful is by using Beam Overloads.

But these abilities are far more effective when using a full broadsiding beam escort/cruiser in terms of increasing your DPS, this is simply because of beam arrays have a different way of handling the power drain (Which has far more penalty than if you would use a full cannon/turret build) and also the 125 cap works a tad different here, hence why EPS is viable in such scenarios

So you already have 2 abilities that are only 10, perhaps 20% of their total potential on a cannon scort. For the rest you can tank a bit better with RSF, and miracle worker is quite ok as well.

But all in all, Engi's in an escort is nothing more than saying to your team that they should figure it out yourself and I simply go on the tanking tour and doing ****ty damage. Sure they do nice 'Damage per second', but not much more then a sci, if any.

Where a sci scort still has some viable functions which could actually have some purpose for a team, Subnuke, Superscan, etc. A engi escort simple throws the hat in the ring and being selfish. Sure, im sure you have killed alot of players with an engi scort in your life, pugging around, and im sure its nice when you are solo'ing and pugging all the time.


The reason why an engi in a cruiser is mostly considered a decent thing to do it because by being an engi in a Cruiser you have slightly more Captain Ability heals/resist in reserve where you can dedicate more of your Bridge officer ability heals to external factors (Your teamplayers perhaps?) Unless you are a selfish 2x EptS3/RSPx2 tank i'd say no class is suitable for your cruiser but oh well.

All in all, Tac in a scort is 1000 times more useful for anyone, your team players, and your opponents by killing them 1000 times as fast

Really though, if you dont care about anything, i suppose even a Tactical in a Starcruiser could work :p hahaha
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 6
09-06-2012, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heronfarm View Post
Indeed hurleybird I know an Eng in a 'scort will never hit like a tactical captain, they just aren't optimised for it.
It's not only that, but in a team setting an engscort is less tanky than a sciscort or a tacscort, and makes your entire team easier to kill overall.

This is very counter-intuitive, so let me explain.

In PvP you must realize that nothing exists in isolation -- you need to look at the broader picture. Compared to a tacscort or a sciscort you are going to be at best half as deadly. All those survivability skills only come in handy when the enemy is shooting at you, but are worthless when they are focusing on your team mates. If they can kill a couple of your team mates, then they can kill you quite easily despite your captain abilities.

One thing people new to PvP, or even old PvPers that don't fight in premades have trouble understanding is that survivability is strongly related to doing damage and controlling the initiative of the battle. The more on edge you keep your opponents the less effective they are going to be at coordinating their offensive capabilities, the harder it becomes for them to coherently deal spike damage along with debuffs at the appropriate time and place. The ultimate defensive coup is getting a kill -- until that player returns the enemy is down 1/5 of their capability and is far more focused on survival than getting kills. Sciscorts in particular can be incredibly defensive, because they have an easy time lining up subnukes on other escorts. It might not show the scoreboard, but nuking a player like MT, Blackjack, or hammel when they have their APA and GDF up is worth at least half team's healing capability, and far more than that in initiative -- your team isn't going to be nearly as active offensively when you are desperately trying to save a teammate from a coordinated strike after all.

To put it simply an engscort screws your team comp. There's no way to effectively build around one. Your team either can't do enough damage, or you can't do enough healing and cc, or both. There are captain/ship combinations that are questionable, but engscort is the only combination that is completely irrelevant in PvP.

Last edited by hurleybird; 09-06-2012 at 11:58 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 172
# 7
09-06-2012, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Engineer escorts just don't work in PvP. They can work in carriers and science ships, kind of, but they are really only at home in a cruiser.


Eng in carriers work just fine. Even more so if you have the recluse.
-------------------------


Future Capt Gecko II Hitlers take on PvP
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 8
09-06-2012, 12:05 PM
It works, unlike a engscort, but I'd still rather have a sci/carrier any day of the week. You're going to be using a lot of deuterium to line up subnukes, but it's still another subnuke.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 9
09-06-2012, 12:27 PM
Quote:
.... There's no way to effectively build around one. Your team either can't do enough damage, or you can't do enough healing and cc, or both. There are captain/ship combinations that are questionable, but engscort is the only combination that is completely irrelevant in PvP.
^^^This!!!

But anyway... Let me try to theory Craft a Build:

Power Preset: 25/75/25/75

Fore Weapons:
3x MKXI [ACCx2] [DMG]Quantum Torpedo Launchers
1x MKXII [ACC x3] Phaser Beam Array

Aft Weapons:
1x MKXII [ACC x3] Phaser Beam Array
??

Comm Tac: TT-I | THY-II, BTS-III, APO-III
Lt Com Tac: TT-I | THY-II | BTS-III
Ens Tac: TS-I
Lt Eng: EPS1, EPS2
Lt Sci: JTS-I, HE2

How I would use my Engineering Abilities: EPS, I?d send to another player on my team, Probably another Escort. RSF would help during my Alpha Strike Approach runs. Miracle Worker is like my RSP that I?m missing on this build.

I?d invest skill points into Flow Capacitors and I?d even equip two flow capacitors to help with the shield drain.

Umm? yeah, this build is kind of fail but meh. If it is all I had to work with that is what I?d do.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,735
# 10
09-06-2012, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
It works, unlike a engscort, but I'd still rather have a sci/carrier any day of the week. You're going to be using a lot of deuterium to line up subnukes, but it's still another subnuke.
Which sums up the problem nicely. There is room for ONE eng on any team.
And with A proper eng/healer you get nothing done in PvE or when pugging. No wonder engs take to escort, at least I get something done solo.

Eng need an overhaul. There cpt abilities suck. And since we now have team batteries, so the whole team can have 4x125 energy anyways even eps is useless. While the number of tac or sci on any given team is negotionable. Bringing more then one eng is pointless. We need viable options for all classes to field more then one member of a 5 player team.
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