Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 262
# 41
09-05-2012, 07:09 PM
Hmm about escorts being glass cannons, from my experience eng and sci escorts can indefinitley tank tac cubes in elite stf's as long as you are outside its torpedo/invisibeam arc (above and below it). While tac escorts would steadily lose hitpoints, but usually the cube will die before the escort does. Now as for glass cannons, the BoP's fill that role lol (more like glass nukes)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 162
# 42
09-05-2012, 09:31 PM
I gotta agree with a previous post.

Escorts are easy mode. While it takes skill to figure out the right build to stay alive, once you get good at it, you realize just how much you DON'T need all them heals on a cruiser.

I run 3 toons and had them all in an escort at one point, it's easy and faster to grind all your gear out. Then I got bored with all of them. If I wanted dogfighting there are other games, Been there, done that.

I like Star Trek Online for more then it's IP. I love Broadsiding gameplay. Loved the Pirate ship games. So all my toons are gravitating back to cruisers. But, I will fly NO Cruiser with too many Engie Boff slots, its absolutely waisted space.

So that leaves the Oddy, Regent, Excelsior as the ONLY cruisers that matter IMO (Fed Side). And I only list the Excelsior because of its LTC, I also see it as waisted with soo many Engie slots. The Dreadnought would make the list if the game had a bigger PVP component, or an actual open world PVP area. Where a sneak up 100K decloaking Alpha strike would rock.

A build on the Previous page makes me smile. I used to have crazy builds like that. Odd choices, not specialized. RSP III? Waste of a Cammander level ability. Whoever it was don't take it wrong, I mean no offense. I wish all abilities were worth using, but even though I don't PVP all the time, My brain always goes to that place when it comes to a build. Like seeing someone use Boarding Party III. Only good Cammander Engie skills are ATSIF III, EJectWP III, DEM III(Certain Cannon builds)

I can tank a Tac cube, Donatra, Gate, etc. With just the Commander Engie boffs alone.(Thanks to Doffs) Only time I die is a crazy one shot, whether at full health or not. Otherwise, I tank it. I don;t stay outta range, I get up in their face. Wait, is that being Kirk? lol

I also hold the aggro 90% of the time. I'll toss Hazard II or Transfer SS to another in need, but generally I expect to grab everything and tank it. IMO, Usually if an escort dies, He either ate a 1 shot, or will get better or move on to a cruiser. If I can be a Tac in an escort with 6 points into Threat Control and tank a Tac Cube, or run in bad situations to heal and not die, then so can that guy. lol
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,046
# 43
09-06-2012, 01:23 AM
[quote=synthiasuicide;5599251]A build on the Previous page makes me smile. I used to have crazy builds like that. Odd choices, not specialized. RSP III? Waste of a Cammander level ability. Whoever it was don't take it wrong, I mean no offense. I wish all abilities were worth using, but even though I don't PVP all the time, My brain always goes to that place when it comes to a build. Like seeing someone use Boarding Party III. Only good Cammander Engie skills are ATSIF III, EJectWP III, DEM III(Certain Cannon builds)/QUOTE]

"Engineering (CMDR): Emergency Power To Weapons I, Reverse Shield Polarity I, Emergency Power To Shields III, Eject Warp Plasma III"

I believe you were referring to this^
This is my build and I specialised it to solo negh'vars in CSE, this also allows it to take a fair beating off a cube but you referenced RSP III, I dare not run RSP III on anything, that is a complete waste, I only keep RSP I as an emergency shield heal (and on my oddy it gets FBP as the thing is only used for PvP). the other thing with my build is that everything becomes instinctive for me as that seems to produce the best results, as such I am open to criticism but am resistant to any major changes. However I agree with your assessment of useful CMDR engie skils hence the above skill set. However as I am trying to improve, any advice would be appreciated
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 176
# 44
09-06-2012, 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthiasuicide View Post

Only good Cammander Engie skills are ATSIF III, EJectWP III, DEM III(Certain Cannon builds)
DEM III is only good when using phaser weapons, for some reason this increase 50 bonus damage to 180 bonus damage per pulse. Don't forget Extend Shields 3, it makes a lot of the fleet missions much easier when paired with TT1 and is PVP gold.

Cruisers are the most prevalent ships for several good reasons in STO. As other's have said the excessive amount of heals available and thick hull makes a cruiser tough enough for any PVE play and they do enough damage to be successful in everything PVE but elite STFs. So it's iconic Star Trek that works well most of the time. The only thing cruisers might be needing is a buff to turn speed, 2 points across the board was a suggestion that sounded reasonable to me.

STO doesn't have glass cannons Fed side, our escorts have enough shield and hull that when paired with Tac Team 1 cycling, the right Sci/engineering skills and consoles they hang in there for the full duration of a fight and then some. The only time a level 50 escort should die in PVE is when they catch a "one hit kill" from the borg or are outnumbered twenty to one, even in PVP a good escort is hard to bust.

The only ship class in STO that needs a buff right now is Sci. Sci skills have had their teeth knocked in by nerfs/new skill tree, have less weapons than everyone else and excessive global timers to deal with. Seriously Hazard emitters and Polarize hull share a 15 second cooldown? Feedback pulse and Transfer shield strength have another 15 second global, and all the skills seem to have a bare minimum of 30 seconds duplicate ability cool down.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 45
09-06-2012, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
Cruisers are so numerous in STO because they're generally the main hero ship class of Star Trek and the most popular. This is similarly why so many KDF players fly Birds of Prey.

Fed cruisers however are probably the worst ships in the game outside of PvP. Their focus is tanking, but when it comes to PvE that's ridiculously easy for any class of ship to do. Heck, shield wise there's only about 1000 shield points difference between a cruiser and an escort (if it has three shield generators, it'll actually have MORE shields then an Assault Cruiser/Refit).

I must be the odd man out here, the reason I use a BoP KDF-side is because I actually kinda like it better than a Feddie-side escort, and it gives my KDF something different from my Fed cruisers.

However, I don't agree that cruisers are the worst ships. I can get decent damage out of a cruiser myself. I will say that the KDF has a decided advantage in the overall utility of their cruisers IMO, though.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 845
# 46
09-06-2012, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
This is my build and I specialised it to solo negh'vars in CSE, this also allows it to take a fair beating off a cube but you referenced RSP III, I dare not run RSP III on anything, that is a complete waste, I only keep RSP I as an emergency shield heal (and on my oddy it gets FBP as the thing is only used for PvP).
You might wanna reconsider about RSP3. I've used every version at least once, and it's by FAR the longest (and most effective) version. But, when I use it, I like to combine it with Tactical Team, that way the excess is sent to ALL my shields. It's a wonderful combo for tanking things like, say, Tactical Cubes and Unimatrix Command Ships (so long as you make sure you don't die by Plasma Energy Bolt).
CHARACTER GRID (@Lord-Ice):
___ |___ _ Fed ____| ____ _KDF __ ____| Rom
Tac_|_Thomas Hale_| __ __Illusion _____| Silence (K)
Eng | ___Antilles _ _| _ Mirror Rygobeth__| N'Vek (F)
Sci _| __ Rygobeth _| _Lukor Son of Q'Tar | Devala (F)
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 47
09-06-2012, 02:39 PM
Cruisers are dominant because of the sheer number of them, and yes, because they are the iconic Star Trek ships minus the Defiant (aka renamed USS Sau Paulo). ("Tough little ship you have there." "LITTLE???" - Riker to Worf in First Contact). They handle like line ships in BSGO, and are just as tough to kill (based on the fact it takes a while if you build them right). But it comes down to this. Cruisers are giant slow damage sponges. They are outclassed in almost everything except damage taking ability by escorts and yes, sci ships. The only really viable method of combat they have is broadsiding (unless you have a tractor beam II and the borg set for it's assimilated tractor beam, in which case, have fun with other weapons) and occasionally blasting a ludicrous amount of torpedoes down something's throat (or up it's rear depending on where you are in relation to your target).

Be that as it may, I am an engi on my fed side, and I fly an Assault cruiser. It's fun. It's tanky. But compared to my FPE, it's just not very effective. Cruisers got the short stick when it came to PVE content simply because as stated multiple times before now, PVE is all about dealing that damage. In fact I think only 3 or 4 posts prior to this one, someone stated that cruisers are almost useless in Elite STFs. Granted they kill the mobs great, but when it comes down to takin out the structures I have to agree. They just don't do it. Escorts on the other hand go in, slaughter everything, take a smoke break, a pee break, get wasted and high then sober and clean, all before the cruiser even gets the dust out of it's phaser banks. But that's kinda the point then isn't it? The cruisers are the money makers. There are more C-store cruiser classes than any other class, and they are the Enterprises and Excelsiors and other well known classes. I mean come on, there are what, 4 versions of the Galaxy class? You have the stock Galaxy, which after you hit level 40 is useless, a refit (which for the most part, still useless), a RETROFIT (guess what, useless but amusing due to it's ability to have a pet), and then a FLEET version (da hell???), oh and last but not least, your alternate timeline version, the Dreadnought. Um... wait I was wrong, I see 5 versions of the Enterprise D there, not 4. Then you have the original Enterprise as a c-store variant, then for the SAME TIER you have the less than useless refit version that only looks semi-decent but is just as terrible. In all honesty, cruisers are for the most part not that great.

Ok, feel free to kill any arguments I have put up before this point. But in all honesty it is a little ludicrous to have 5, I say again, 5 versions of the Enterprise D. Be that as it may, cruisers are the money makers on the fed side. I mean if you want another example, look at the tac escort. It's the Defiant. I freakin loved that ship. And since Cryptic (er... ehem... PWE) knows that ship is popular, guess what, there are 4 versions of that ship too. We have your stock defiant, decent ship overall, if not a little weak on the hull repair (something about only 50 crew), then you have the refit with it's quad cannony goodness, then the retrofit, which you get a cloaking device (not terrible, but really REALLY not worth 2k zen), and lastly, the fleet version, which is just this little demon from hell, running around with it's 5 tac consoles and the ability to use ALL the previous versions equipment.

Sooooo yeah, of course cruisers are the most prevalent. They are the biggest (cmon guys, we all know that size counts, regardless of what you say), the best known (popularity contest), and the tankiest (here comes the flaming -.-). Combine all those together and you basically have the reason why there are so bloody many of those blasted things.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.

Last edited by hereticknight085; 09-06-2012 at 02:41 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,046
# 48
09-06-2012, 04:20 PM
One word regarding ^this "Yup"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 227
# 49
09-07-2012, 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Um... I just got my doffing Engi to 50 a few days ago. I set her up in a T4 Assault Cruiser and can already hold agro and survive just fine in Elite STFs.... And it takes me less than 5 minutes to kill the cube who's agro i'm holding. I don't understand why so many cruiser pilots think merely holding agro and surviving is enough, you need to also kill what you're holding. Its not like you don't have defenses to spare, only in emergencies do I shift full power to shields, all power to weapons is more my style, and live on a steady diet of EPTS 3, yet my standart Assault Cruiser holds agro and survives.

Why be "merely" a damage sponge, kill stuff too!
You beat me to it, and listing anything in a "normal" STF is just silly for a benchmark. I could tank the cube in Infected on my Excelsior with mostly still crap Mk X gear while I was grinding for my Mk XI and actually get it down to almost 50% hull by the time everyone else was done blowing the gate. Doing this the whole time while keeping my huil at or above 98% and shields almost full. Tanking a cube no matter if it's Tac or normal in any "normal" STF is not hard.

Also agree that too many cruiser pilots take "tanking" too literally as in "I just get shot, I don't need to do any damage." I rarely run full power to shields and always run full weapon power. EPTS is your best friend along with RSP and Aux to Struct.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 162
# 50
09-07-2012, 07:13 AM
I wish Escorts were actually glass cannons, but they're not.

AS it is, My tac in a Fleet Patrol has almost same shields and not to far off on hull as a cruiser. Yet dishes out great damage?

It's broken in my eyes.

It confuses me that Escorts and Cruisers have the same amount of Console slots. IMO, a Cruiser should have 2+ more console slots than an escort can have. That or Cruisers need a major Hull buff. Something. as it is It comes down to what you'd rather fly. Since almost everything can be done better in an escort.

I just don't care much for point and shoot. Hell for most I dont even dogfight, Im a movable Stationary Turret in an escort.
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