Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 535
So a while back, Cryptic implemented "Beta" DX11 support, you can manually select the D3D 11 renderer in the game now. However, the game isn't exactly using any specific DX11 unique features like DirectCompute acceleration for lighting and shodowing effects, or Tessellation on characters and environment, or advanced Ambient Occlusion effects and other effects directly related to DX11.

So, what's the latest update on DX11 support Cryptic? Going to see any DX11 updates anytime soon, maybe Season 7?

I really want to re-visit DX11 performance and image quality in this game when updates are made, I wrote this back in January when Beta DX11 support was added - http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/...rmance_review/
"Would you mind not standing on my chest? My hat's on fire." - The Doctor

My Let's Play Series of STO - http://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 126
# 2
09-08-2012, 11:04 PM
Good question!
"Live Long and Prosper but always carry a fully charged phaser, just in case!". Arrr'ow

Co-Leader of Serenity's Grasp
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,496
# 3
09-09-2012, 01:16 AM
AFAIK a Dev posted that for Tesselation to happen the Art Assets would have to be build in a different way from the beginning and it is not going to change at this point anymore.


That was a while back (pre forum change, probably an "Archived Post" now), but i would not expect Tesselation to make it into STO after that comment.


I have not used the existing DX11 option because of the black textures, but mostly because i get slightly better performance in space, but around 5 FPS less on ground (DS9/Q'onos were clearly stuttering more, and every time i turned my head the CPU load spiked), it is clearly different, but not faster or better in my opinion.


I guess we will only see any updates to DX11 with Season updates when they merge their "branches" (base code version numbers).
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 89
# 4
09-09-2012, 03:11 AM
Cryptic really needs a major overhaul of their graphics render-er, at the moment its utter garbage.

I recently upgraded from a Geforce 260 to a Geforce 670 and in all of my other games i got a phenomenal increase in performance, In The Secret World i went from medium/high graphical settings with x2 AA and getting 40 -50 fps to max settings with x8 AA and getting 70 - 120 fps, in batman archam city i went from medium settings with low physX and getting 30 - 40 fps to max settings and high physX and getting 60 fps.. In Skyrim i went from high settings and x2 AA and getting 40 - 50 FPS to ultra settings and x8AA and getting 90 - 200 FPS.

In STO i went from getting 30 - 50 fps to 60 - 65 fps, with no graphical niceness boosts whatsoever..... talk about underwhelming.... even in DX9 mode i should get somewhere around 100 - 200 FPS considering STO's rather basic graphics (hell i get between 100 - 250 FPS in just cause 2 and its one of the nicest looking DirectX 10 games there is).

Maybe Cryptic should spend some of their lockbox money on hiring a dev or two who actually knows what their doing with Direct X !
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HHMMMMMmmmmm, Pizza !!!!!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 535
# 5
09-09-2012, 03:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meehee View Post
Cryptic really needs a major overhaul of their graphics render-er, at the moment its utter garbage.

I recently upgraded from a Geforce 260 to a Geforce 670 and in all of my other games i got a phenomenal increase in performance, In The Secret World i went from medium/high graphical settings with x2 AA and getting 40 -50 fps to max settings with x8 AA and getting 70 - 120 fps, in batman archam city i went from medium settings with low physX and getting 30 - 40 fps to max settings and high physX and getting 60 fps.. In Skyrim i went from high settings and x2 AA and getting 40 - 50 FPS to ultra settings and x8AA and getting 90 - 200 FPS.

In STO i went from getting 30 - 50 fps to 60 - 65 fps, with no graphical niceness boosts whatsoever..... talk about underwhelming.... even in DX9 mode i should get somewhere around 100 - 200 FPS considering STO's rather basic graphics (hell i get between 100 - 250 FPS in just cause 2 and its one of the nicest looking DirectX 10 games there is).

Maybe Cryptic should spend some of their lockbox money on hiring a dev or two who actually knows what their doing with Direct X !
Under the video tab, open up the Troubleshooting options at the very bottom. Turn OFF Framerate Stabilizer and Auto-Stabilize Framerate. Also make sure Limit FPS at the bottom is OFF. This should give you the maximum possible FPS the game can render.

Though I prefer to leave the framerate stabilizer enabled for a more consistent performance. With framerate stabilizer off the fps will change dramatically and the change in fps bothers me.

But it's up to you, at least it will give you something if all you want is the fastest possible FPS in the game.
"Would you mind not standing on my chest? My hat's on fire." - The Doctor

My Let's Play Series of STO - http://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 89
# 6
09-09-2012, 03:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctorbluebox View Post
Under the video tab, open up the Troubleshooting options at the very bottom. Turn OFF Framerate Stabilizer and Auto-Stabilize Framerate. Also make sure Limit FPS at the bottom is OFF. This should give you the maximum possible FPS the game can render.

Though I prefer to leave the framerate stabilizer enabled for a more consistent performance. With framerate stabilizer off the fps will change dramatically and the change in fps bothers me.

But it's up to you, at least it will give you something if all you want is the fastest possible FPS in the game.

I have tried disabling those settings already, they make no real difference to the overall frame rate.

Ultimately im not really that bothered, i always knew STO was a rather shoddily made game, i just never imagined its graphics engine was as poor as it is.

Actually funny story, when i first put in my Geforce 670 and reinstalled windows, STO was the first game i tried and lets just say i had a massive attack of buyers remorse and started panicking thinking "ohh god have i spent a lot of money on a card that's not much more powerful than my old card". Then i got my other games installed and checked out them and ran some benchmarks and thought "hhmmm STO's graphics capability is a bit pants compared to everything else."......
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HHMMMMMmmmmm, Pizza !!!!!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,496
# 7
09-09-2012, 12:11 PM
STO is very CPU heavy

when i changed from a GTX260 to 460 there was no difference whatsoever in framerates.
then i updated form my Q6600 (@3,1GHz) to a Core i5 2500K (@4,6GHz) and the framerate skyrocketed.

in my case the old CPU was just at the ceiling anyway and the GPU was bottlenecked by it and couldn't run at full speed.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 89
# 8
09-09-2012, 01:51 PM
The funny thing is STO never used to be CPU limited, I have an i7 860 @2.8GHX (overclocked to 3.4GHz) and when i first started playing STO the CPU load was about 25% - 30% and never anymore than that.

But when the season 3 beta test went to tribble i noticed on that my CPU load would be sitting around 60% - 100%, when i switched back to holodeck the CPU load would go back to the 25% - 30% range. Sadly whatever crap Cryptic did back then went live and has been live ever since.
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Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,723
# 9
09-09-2012, 10:12 PM
Our graphics are never going to match those of a single player game with tons of money behind it.

Our graphics engine is actually pretty decent. The problem is that because we are an ongoing game, which needs to support very low end cards, there are some things that higher end cards are capable of, which we can't take advantage of without alienating our lower end users. I talked some about that in the Starbase Incursion Flashlight discussion a while back.

We have to make sure low end can run our game. Anything we can add on, which is purely eye candy, and isn't required for gameplay, we will add.

The graphic programmers have been working on DX11 for a while now. I haven't heard any specific updates from them recently, but I know that they're still on it.

As for specific features, I'm not aware of all of them. I do know that we have looked into tessellation before, and found that it is NOT something that can just be applied across the board. Assets have to be built with tessellation in mind, or they just break. It's not because they were built poorly before, it's just a different way of going about things. The good news here is that we can turn tessellation on at the material level. So we can, as we go forward, build with that in mind, and potentially use it in future productions.

I'd love to have access to DX11 shadows, but I haven't heard anything about it from the programmers.
-The Artist formerly known as Tumerboy



Quote:
Originally Posted by mightybobcnc View Post
Tacofangs, what is your beef with where's Sulu?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 10
09-09-2012, 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobang View Post
STO is very CPU heavy

when i changed from a GTX260 to 460 there was no difference whatsoever in framerates.
then i updated form my Q6600 (@3,1GHz) to a Core i5 2500K (@4,6GHz) and the framerate skyrocketed.

in my case the old CPU was just at the ceiling anyway and the GPU was bottlenecked by it and couldn't run at full speed.
Listen to this guy.

Quad core dont matter. Game utilizes only 2 cores. so they need to be fast, REALLY fast.

My Q9450 at 3.8GHz wasnt enough for +60 smooth FPS at high quality.



Next to that, the UI/HUD is not properly, if all, GPU accelerated. Thats the main reason why going from a 6750 or whatever to a GTX670/680 has little effect under alot of circumstances.

Even Dynamic Lights still lag my PC in pvp matches or fleet defense like it hangs on the CPU, while it should be GPU rendered/calculated? Its just stupid.

670GTX + i7 3770K OC'ed to 4.5GHz and still i cannot play this game on max with +60 smooth fps. Only when i disable Dynamic lights. Even then, very occasionally i drop below 60. with my 2 CPU cores fully utilized, 2 doing absolutely dog****, and GPU also at a bare 50% utilization.


Until cryptic optimizes their engine, id say upgrade your CPU because a GPU upgrade might not do the thing u would like to see :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
. The problem is that because we are an ongoing game, which needs to support very low end cards,
With all due respect, this game requires DX9. Aero utilizes DX9, and all other properly accelerated by the GPU UI is created for DX9, so from that aspect its just not right what you are saying. And this IS the most problematic thing that slows down our game in STO.

Try opening up your inventory and some other windows, try opening your mail, see your FPS drop. Not GPU related, because its all being drawn by the CPU, which is old these days. and all dx9 cards can handle it about now.

but whatever, just be sure that im pretty sure fleet defense is lagigng for alot of playrs becauseof it, NOT because of the 3d models needing to be rendered, but because of all the overlays and what not have 2 be calculated by the cpu.

You are basically creating content your own engine can barely handle on the most decent of computers. even high ends. I hope a programmer here can confirm my findings of this game, because it sure has been posted a couple, if not many times before. And yes, i heard a dev say that unfortunately this wont change in the near future. But since u guys make content that spams dozens of reticles boxes, names, etc you should make a proper engine that can handle it.

Last edited by marctraiderz; 09-09-2012 at 10:30 PM.
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