In your last post you also went to great lengths telling me how little I know about the game.

Lets do get together sometime? I would love to show you how very little I do know about this game.

I do a lot of pvp. At lvl 50 Sci doesn't do bupkis for damage in pvp. 1 escort specced and geared can melt a sci facing in about 2 seconds. We can keep it up for a few more using sci team, tss, epts, RSP to stay alive for a few more after that but we cannot kill the escort if they have any idea what they are doing.

Most run max inertial dampners and have no problem flying away from tykens and gravity well. Most have polarize hull and apo to get away from tracters.

Sci weapon dps is a joke compared to an escort and our sci powers that actually do damage have been nerfed into the ground.

All we can do is debuff. That is wrong.

I apologize there.

I have been PvPing for nearly 1000 days now, and I just don't have that problem.

using SCI, TSS, ES, EptS wouldn't be affected by tachyon.

Plz, counters:
AP:O for Tractor beams, GW
ET to VM
ST to disrupt sensors
TT to Boarding party
those are counters, hard ones,
SNB counter for what? AP? CRF? BO? with a cycle time 4x longer? or mobilty... i thought that was hull hit points (says Cryptic)... which u have less in a SV then any other ship class.
Sensor scan counter? that like saying HY is a counter. or go down fighting.

do u understand how FBP works now? were not talking about the % of the incoming dmg reflected.
lets say u reflect X dmg. that hits the enemy X/2 to shield and X/2 to hull. the change proposed is for the X to hit like a normal weapon attack. if shield s up it only hits shield. it doesnt get split anymore.


well it shouldn't be just 5 secs for a commander skill that has 1min cd. or it should be an AoE version of Jam.
And whic player have u seen to shoot his team mates of he gets hit with it? he just lays back for a few secs. Jam 1 does more or less the same job. a few secs for the person hit to look for another target.

ofc not. i love it on my escort. But compare the boost and up time of it to commander sci skills? notice a difference?

NO that's what pvp is about for a tac. For a cruiser is healing, and wearing the opponent down . for a sci it's about being unconventional with debuffs and control.

wow u'r talking like it lasts forever. or like there's no counter. and which 2km ranged sci skill are u talking about that can instantly seal ones fate when used?

which ones are the same?
defense rating - evasion in other terms, the chance of getting missed.
stealth... i dn't think i have to...

remove buffs - like dmg increases, resistance when hit, higher power lvls
cd increase.. dn't think i have to.

i must rly be missing it. which of those are so similar it makes em the same skill?


u might be referring to a SC1 vs VM3 situation in which case it would reduce the time VM is active.
let say VM3 has 15 sec duration.
SCT1 would reduce that by 5secs
SCT2 by 10
SCT3 by 15


that actualy makes a lot of sense. i always found it funny tractoring cubes. that's a cool idea thinking of it like that.

That's a great idea. I like it. I'm all for removing damage output from science abilities and replacing it with darn good debuffs.

The issue i see with this is that a single weapon battery would counter a tier 3 ability. The power drain would have to be similar to siphon/tyken drain in the aspect that the drained amount remains drained while the ability is active.

For example, have every X amount of damage proc a power level debuff that is PERCENTAGE based...that lasts X seconds. Give it a max of say.. 10 procs. When added up, at tier 3 ability, the power level debuff would be 60% and lasts for 10 seconds each proc.

That way a spike damage burst from an escort hurts does inflict damage on the first few hits but after that the debuff is high enough so that for 10 seconds the escort's damage is crap.

That way the continous damage from NPC ships, player cruisers and sci ships will also be affected. For tanks it is a great ability since it would debuff the target and benefit the entire team not just himself.

You somehow managed to state two abilities which are clearly different do 'the same thing'. They don't. I said you should look up the information first.

You said, in regard to charged particle burst and SNB:

Its apples and oranges. Stealthsight, stealth and defense rating (NOT resists as Capt Apollo has apparently misunderstood) being debuffed has nothing to do with:

Removing applied debuffs.

If anything a ship with boff-buffed defense rating (aka APmega) getting hit by particle burst get the defense rating DECREASED from its buffed state. It does not wipe the ability out.

Though technically, AP:Omega 1 should be decreased in bonus by CPB:1 and zeroed out by CPB:2 because it would be fair. A LT CMDR level ability countering a LT cmdr level ability when both, as part of their effects, change defense rating in a % basis.


Slowing the recharge time of their abilities and weapon systems

CPB as proposed does nothing to timers or weapon systems. Unlike the current burst, this will not decloak a ship .. a decrease in stealth , if the stealthed ship happens to be inside the cone, may make it visible while still cloaked to ships with sensor skills and high aux (aka science ships or carriers). That way it does not reset the cloak upon impact but would instead require the player that 'sees' them to take a second or third set of actions to pull the ship out of cloak with another ability or weapon blast.

I'm a B'rel owner and nothing sucks more than the instant decloak ability some stuff out there has. I'd much rather become visible for a little while but remain under cloak status and have the other person actually take the time to target me and do something to me than just click one button.

How are these two abilities the same? I find it illogical.

This is childish.


That is exactly right. The tachyon beam does interrupt shield balancing and a sci ship can use native subsystem attack on the shield to try and create and opening in the target's defenses.

Remember the duration of each tachyon beam and the boff station they would be available at.

An escort using ensign tier tachyon beam 1 receives the benefit of a relatively weak turn rate debuff and interrupts the shield balancing for about 4 seconds. In 4 seconds the escort's much higher damage output can clean the shield and hit hull.

Do note the duration of the debuff can also be tied to AUX (which is probably a good balancing idea) so a high wep power escort running low aux would disrupt for very short time.

Also of note, tachyon beam is a forward arc ability. Only escorts benefit from forward arc engagements.

Cruisers,Carriers and Science ships would be using tachyon beam mostly in support or as a means to try and secure a torpedo hit to hull ..aka shield on one side of target is weak, point nose to it, lose the firepower from rear arc in the process, fire the tachyon, use forward arc weapons to bring the shield down as the torpedoes race in.

Also remember the ability does not disrupt the victim's ability to heal the shields.. it just wont allow the victim to distribute the shields while the debuff is in effect.

New system does not drain shields. It only prevents shield balancing and turn rate debuff.
Sub system targeting ONLY > shields in tier 3 where it has a very high chance to disable. I've yet to ever see a shield disable with the native subsystem attack and have not yet seen a disable with the tier 2 attack. Tier 2 brings shields down through power drain only when combined with another power drain (aka siphon)... or if the target really runs low shield power.


Absolutely. Just like charged particle burst 2 would nullify the defensive boost atk pattern omega 1 gives.

and btw, defensive abilities (which i'll interpret as anything that helps you survive with a click without having to target the attacker(s) )- an escort has :

atk omega = defense boost, tractor immunity
LT Sci and LT Engineering stations each can provide defensive boosts.
Polarize hull
Aux to dampener
Emg Pwr to Engines
tractor repulsors (situational)
reverse shield polarity

are the primary ones. Escorts get a ton of choices but they must choose whether they want to be able to heal the damage and fight or be able to hit&run. You cant have both even if atk omega almost lets you because it bundles the entire hit&run package and lets you use the sci and lt stations to heal.

No effect. The healing and regeneration of the shield facings is not changed. Tachyon beam would not prevent healing, only shield distribution. If you're getting hit by a tachyon beam and your left shield is going down.. you can still do sci team and any shield heal/regen and it will heal.

Sci team cleanses the turn rate debuff and heals the shield. Tiered of course, you cant expect sci team 1 to cleanse tachyon beam 3's full turn rate debuff nor its shield balance interrupt effect.

IF tachyon 3 disrupts for 10 seconds and debuff turn by -50 then sci team 1 would lower the disrupt timer to 6 seconds and turn rate to -35 or something of the sort.... and it heals the affected shield.

The 'victim' can also jam/scramble sensors to disrupt tachyon beam. It can do subsystem attack aux to disable aux power and turn off tachyon beam. It can use aux to dampeners and gain turn rate so he can rotate ship and thus not have just one shield slammed. It can use atk pattern omega to increase his turn rate and speed out of range of the tachyon. It can do emg power to engines or shields to get away or boost the affected shield.

there's a ton of counters to it.

SNB affects previously activated buffs only and is on a long timer It is also a captain ability not a boff ability. Viral Matrix affects random subsystems. Sensor scan does not affect shields in any way or form and it is also a captain ability not a boff ability.


You tell me. Right now I activate feedback 3 and see most escorts around me firing AOE attacks kill or nearly kill themselves when their squishy little hulls take 50% of the monster damage they fire in return. They cant react to it and it is direct hull damage.

Having their shields hit first for full damage (meaning no 50/50 split... the feedback 3 is limited to reflecting I think is 80% damage per shot before resists) will give the escort the notice that he is about to get his ticket punched by something and MOVE out of the way.

By moving he presents a different shield to any remaining incoming feedback pulse and ceases to fire on the user of feedback pulse.

I don't know about you but that seems a LOT more fair and balanced than escorts killing themselves with their own alpha+omega+emg to weps boosted monster guns being reflected to them up to 80% of that damage and 50% of that reflected damage bypassing their shields.

'cause i tell you science ships and cruisers arent that worried about reflected damage. they can either take the hits (cruiser) or dont do that much energy damage to begin with (sci ships)

PVE it would make the feedback useful against the NPC's.


If you're flying an escort sure. Cruisers and sci ships in pvp have other concerns.

Not really. The tractor pushes you in like the grav well pull-in would. Aka you can still push your engines or evasive and snap out of the tractor if you can break the 5km distance.

You also have polarize hull and attack pattern omega to be immune from tractor. You can use repulsors to push the tractoring ship out of range and cut the tractor. You can jam/scramble to break the lock. Every discipline has the means to break tractor and ALL ships have access to ALL at ensign and lt levels (except for omega).

It is not 'impossible' to escape.

...which is the sci role and the cruiser would count himself lucky the target ship has or is using none of the myriad of tractor-counter abilities that exist.

Actually it would be a much stronger pull than gravity well if graviton skill has points spent on it.

Escort can tractor escort with no penalty. Escort can tractor larger ships but at a risk..and that risk may be worth taking for the benefits of the tractor.

Please do tell me what sci ability has the synergy of attack pattern omega.

A lt cmdr ability that makes one immune to tractors, boosts turn rate, boosts defense, boosts speed, boosts damage output AND boosts damage RESISTANCE ...

I know of no sci ability that would do the equivalent for science. Heck even if i triggered all available sci buffs that could be clicked and used simulatenously in a cmdr sci + lt cmdr sci + ensign sci boff station ship could i get something remotely close to it.

GW tractor pull is nearly identical regardless of tier. Only the damage changes in any noticeable way.

Back in the day pre-f2p yeah, they used to have very significant tractor strength differences. Now... its equally laughable to escape both with mere engine power.

It doesn't make sense to call it another form of SNB. If anything, its more like attack pattern beta but affecting defense rating rather than resists.

...and hey, all ships can use it not just sci ships or sci captains. Ability is available at LT level.

There is a reduction in the efficiency of the counter. As stated earlier, sci team 1 does reduce the effectiveness of viral matrix but it does not cleanse it completely.

Just like tac team 1 should not cleanse boarding party 3 but rather lower its duration time.

Viral matrix can be countered by the abilities that re-activate the subsystems ..aka emg power to- abilities for example.

The whole point of viral matrix is to make the other guy burn his abilities faster by forcing the shutdowns. If you have it cleaned out with 1 click by an ensign ability then it is a wasted skill and like it is currently, nobody uses it. Its not worth the lt cmdr or cmdr slot.

A battery would counter it yes, but the cooldown on a battery is longer (2 min) than the skill cooldown of Feedback Pulse (30sec). Besides, you must have a way to counter every ability in the game.

The effects last longer than the active skill. Those 5-10-15 were active skill times. The debuff itself lasts the same amount of time across the board(15 seconds). There is no max stack counter on the ability. The more the attacker strikes the target with the active skill, the more power loss to weapons they would receive.

This makes it a more crafty debuff skill and a 'think twice' defense against strafing runs on a science vessel without effecting the defense of the attacker.

Not that any of this matters, as they won't give any of these ideas thought.

FBP has 1 min cd... EPtX or AtX are also counters that help.

[quote=gstamo01;5650771
Besides, you must have a way to counter every ability in the game. [/QUOTE]

and apply that thought to the FBP suggestion, it would make it a great counter to the insane Tac dmg buffs.

also now when a tac sees u'r FBP online he just targets some1 else and will take idk 2-3k hull dmg in the process. As a debuff the effect would linger a bit, so he couldn't just switch targets with who knows how many staked buffs and just kill some1 else.

yeah right there made the reflect dmg concept a well rounded one. even if u weren't taking insane dmg fom the enemy it still gave u a nice boots. changing it to energy would be ok if ALL heals depended heavily on aux. but they dn't. adding radiation dmg,quite a bit lower ofc then what the reflected would be, seems sensible? circuits shorting , vents popping, leaks and so on from the feedback effect?

What about the concept of refraction.

The primary player targeted, fired off FBP.

Within a certain range the FB is reflected off onto allied ships, the strength which is determined by the distance to the vessel and the duration of the pulse. Bit like the KDF isometric charge.

It has been my experience that most escorts firing on my ship die from the feedback and cannot do anything to avoid it. Simple reason is they buff up their guns and fire cannon rapid fire.. the first volley takes a second or two to 'fly' to you (depending on range) which is when I trigger feedback.

That, right there, secures the alpha strike the escort is hoping to cripple my shields and slam my hull with gets sent back to him.

The feedback blue pulse flies back to him...and because of human nature, it takes him a second or two to realize what it is and decide on action.. react on it. However his guns are on autofire and still buffed. Almost always they cannot react before the second volley is fired.

Considering a crappy equipment escort with buffed up cannons can take down a shield facing (~12k on my carrier) and severely damage hull (~60k hull) in the first two bursts ... well, thats 70k or so of damage reflected back at 80% (56k) and bypassing his shields hitting him for 50% its 28k damage. Resist on the escort could lower the damage by 6k at best.

Its still 22k hull damage in 2 bursts that they usually have no way to avoid. Now consider escorts with GOOD equipment who know how to stack their gun buffs (I HAVE been 1-shotted in my carrier by some darn good escorts so I know they can pull over 90k damage in 2 volleys) and you see why the 'oh crap hes got feedback on ill stop shooting him now and move to another target' tends to not be work very well.

...especially on the 5 tac console bug ships. They fire a volley and see the second half of their explosion from the death cam. Its that quick

After a few deaths yeah they may wise up and try to wait for feedback to wear off... but a feedback tank can cycle two feedbacks just as he cycles his own attack buffs.


Im confused as to where this came from if its responding to the feedback pulse quote of mine.

That would make the feedback pulse way overpowered. The other ships would be getting hit by what may be huge damage amounts caused by someone else. Now imagine if its a carrier or some other ship that is usually ganked upon by multiple ships...and you get an absolutely insane damage output from the ability.

Three ships firing on a carrier with this would mean each ship gets hit by damage being 'refracted' from his own ship and two others. That would be quite unbalancing.

Or geez in STF..aggro a whole bunch of spheres and probably watch them die in 4 seconds as their combined damage whacks them all.