Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 1 Feedback: NPC AI and content
09-06-2012, 10:26 AM
Intro: I find the NPC AI to be un-interesting and completely un-challenging; and frankly, an insult to the entire community. I know that this is a rather strong statement to make and to start out with but frankly that is simply how I feel about it. However, I have a couple of suggestions that could remedy the un-interesting and un-challenging NPC AI in the game and would love to hear back from the community first and a developer later about the feasibility of the following suggestions.

Question: Why can?t the development team create NPC AI starships that have the same Hull Strength, Shield Strength and with the correct Standard Mark Equipment that is appropriate to their level as similar to the player playable ships?

Answer: If they did so the NPC AI would be too weak and easily defeated because the NPC AI does not use Abilities in an intelligent manner. Therefore we can assume that the development team decided to increase the AI shield hit points and hull to compensate for the lack of artificial intelligence that would have been required to make the NPC use Bridge Officer Abilities.

Suggestion: With all of the above in mind, I would say that the AI doesn?t need to use abilities in an intelligent manner as to become more difficult. My suggestion to the Developers would be:

Give all of the AI the ability to use Tactical Team and Emergency Power to shields on rotation? The lower level NPC would only be able to use Tactical Team every 30 seconds and two copies of Emergency Power to Shields every 30 seconds. Even so, the AI would be more challenging then. On top of just using those two abilities, then give the AI an Offensive ability that it also uses when available.

For higher end NPC, allow them to use Tactical Team every 15 seconds and keep the Emergency Power to Shield Rotation going every 30 seconds. Then through in a couple of other Abilities!

Summary: Give us NPC AI ships with similar Shields and hull hit points to that of player playable ships and mark equipment that is representative to the NPC level. Then rotate defensive abilities that the players themselves use followed by a use of an offensive ability or two.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 2
09-06-2012, 01:28 PM
Game AI have always been inherently predictable and thus inferior to the human mind when it comes to tactics and gameplay. If they follow the suggestions that you laid out, all that would do is push people towards debuffing skills and other skills that don't rely on brute firepower to defeat the enemy. . .and then it will get 'boring' again, because the AI won't adapt unless changes are programmed in. That's the simple truth of the matter.

Want a good way to pass the time? Do some PvP. Either pug the queues and hope you don't get reamed by a pre-made or an obsessive min-maxer, or join a fleet that does casual PvPing (like what my fleet does). Some fleets do nothing but PvP, and probably have room for both casuals and min-maxers/experienced PvPers. Stop expecting that the AI programming will come anywhere near the adaptability and difficulty of a competent human player. That's why PvP exists to begin with, because the AI often doesn't provide an in-depth challenge, especially after you've figured out how to kill it easily.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 3
09-11-2012, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
Game AI have always been inherently predictable and thus inferior to the human mind when it comes to tactics and gameplay. If they follow the suggestions that you laid out, all that would do is push people towards debuffing skills and other skills that don't rely on brute firepower to defeat the enemy. . .and then it will get 'boring' again, because the AI won't adapt unless changes are programmed in. That's the simple truth of the matter.

Want a good way to pass the time? Do some PvP. Either pug the queues and hope you don't get reamed by a pre-made or an obsessive min-maxer, or join a fleet that does casual PvPing (like what my fleet does). Some fleets do nothing but PvP, and probably have room for both casuals and min-maxers/experienced PvPers. Stop expecting that the AI programming will come anywhere near the adaptability and difficulty of a competent human player. That's why PvP exists to begin with, because the AI often doesn't provide an in-depth challenge, especially after you've figured out how to kill it easily.
I already do PVP. The change I suggested to the AI would help players even just a little bit to understand what EPTS rotation is along with what Tactical Team is and how it is effective.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 4
09-11-2012, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleon22 View Post
Intro: I find the NPC AI to be un-interesting and completely un-challenging; and frankly, an insult to the entire community. I know that this is a rather strong statement to make and to start out with but frankly that is simply how I feel about it. However, I have a couple of suggestions that could remedy the un-interesting and un-challenging NPC AI in the game and would love to hear back from the community first and a developer later about the feasibility of the following suggestions.

Question: Why can?t the development team create NPC AI starships that have the same Hull Strength, Shield Strength and with the correct Standard Mark Equipment that is appropriate to their level as similar to the player playable ships?
Thing is, the AI the way you want it exists in the game now. In some really screwed up way, the devs have not made the 'good' AI function in all NPCs.


I suggest you compare the AI behavior of these different NPCs:

Borg in STF = DUMB as bricks. They are nothing but massive hull damage sponges, laughable shields and they don't heal shield (only 'tac team' at the very first time they get hit) and only when they're 5% of less HP do they kick in a very small hull heal (bosses only).

Romulan/Reman ships: Perform sequences of abilities in the best approximation of an attack maneuver. D'Dedirex and Mugato combining emg to engines, tractor beams, mines, heavy torpedo/torpedo spreads.

Mirror Incursion: Mirror ships HEAL, balance shields, heal each other, use tractor beams, fire multiple energy and torpedo attacks. Most amazingly, they maneuver in combat to gain advantage.

Klingon NPC's: Dumb as bricks...almost the same AI as borg.

Federation NPC's: Dumb as bricks. Individual ship classes do retain the chance to pull a ship-defining ability... aka defiants pull cannon strafing runs, science ships use random science abilities, etc. It all seems random however.

Breen: Same as borg but with different weaponry.


... all in all it makes you wonder why the AI from the Mirror and Romulan ships is not applied to all ships. Give each ship a certain unique 'sequence of maneuvers' they can perform. Let them heal, balance shields... the whole caboodle. Lower their hulls and increase their shields to match player ratios. Understandably the NPC ships should have a lot more shields and hulls than players since players are smarter (arguably in some cases) and have access to a lot more diverse set of attacks and combinations.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 322
# 5
09-11-2012, 03:14 PM
Rumor has it there's some lower level episode where you fight 20 odd cruisers, perhaps the "night of the comet" one, and all mob in there got upgraded with bioneural torp...

I think this is definitely an oversight that mob there doesn't have the uber iso charge too...

Cause well, we like our lower level player base
STF Elite Advanced Tactics
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 6
09-12-2012, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
Thing is, the AI the way you want it exists in the game now. In some really screwed up way, the devs have not made the 'good' AI function in all NPCs.


I suggest you compare the AI behavior of these different NPCs:

Borg in STF = DUMB as bricks. They are nothing but massive hull damage sponges, laughable shields and they don't heal shield (only 'tac team' at the very first time they get hit) and only when they're 5% of less HP do they kick in a very small hull heal (bosses only).

Romulan/Reman ships: Perform sequences of abilities in the best approximation of an attack maneuver. D'Dedirex and Mugato combining emg to engines, tractor beams, mines, heavy torpedo/torpedo spreads.

Mirror Incursion: Mirror ships HEAL, balance shields, heal each other, use tractor beams, fire multiple energy and torpedo attacks. Most amazingly, they maneuver in combat to gain advantage.

Klingon NPC's: Dumb as bricks...almost the same AI as borg.

Federation NPC's: Dumb as bricks. Individual ship classes do retain the chance to pull a ship-defining ability... aka defiants pull cannon strafing runs, science ships use random science abilities, etc. It all seems random however.

Breen: Same as borg but with different weaponry.


... all in all it makes you wonder why the AI from the Mirror and Romulan ships is not applied to all ships. Give each ship a certain unique 'sequence of maneuvers' they can perform. Let them heal, balance shields... the whole caboodle. Lower their hulls and increase their shields to match player ratios. Understandably the NPC ships should have a lot more shields and hulls than players since players are smarter (arguably in some cases) and have access to a lot more diverse set of attacks and combinations.
You very well summed up what i'd love to see out of the AI in PVE.
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