Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12
# 21
09-13-2012, 12:11 PM
Hello again

I have now created two skill-builds (disregarding actual BO abilities)

Here is the Escort one:

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...build=zubo11_0

And here the one for a Cruiser:

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...build=zubo12_0

Basically the same only threat control and attack patterns are different(and because of that some minor changes).


Edit:

One thing i have just thought of: Would it not be possible to have a skill build that would work with cruisers AND escorts? In that case i could just try out everything and see what is is best. Or is it totally impossible to play an escort with threat control?

This would be my suggestion in that case:

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...build=zubo13_0

any thoughts on that?
Now if i would choose one of these are they going to be ok?

Last edited by zubo100; 09-13-2012 at 12:48 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 22
09-13-2012, 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zubo100 View Post
One thing i have just thought of: Would it not be possible to have a skill build that would work with cruisers AND escorts? In that case i could just try out everything and see what is is best. Or is it totally impossible to play an escort with threat control?
It's not impossible (for PVE), you just need to plan your build out so that you are capable of surviving the damage output of whatever you shoot at in the Escort.

Example build with same skillpoint choices:
(i) Tac Ody BOFF Layout
(ii) Fleet Escort BOFF Layout

Space skills should be self-explanatory. Ground skill choices for an Engineer on STFs are quite important - tends to be Demolitions for Mine spike damage (KAGE) and Turrets and Drones for normal gameplay (with proper DOFFs you can drop 3x Turrets, 3x Mortars and 3x Drones simultaneously) and Modification Specialist for Weapons Malfunction on Bosses.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12
# 23
09-14-2012, 12:50 AM
Ah yes i have not really thought about ground skills. Thanks for the advice there.

Now this skillset looks nice. A lot of people use 3 points in power insulators and inertial dampeners, but i guess this is more important for PvP? Anyway i found out i still have 5 respecs left so i will try this out with an escort as soon as i have redone enough old episodes to have some basic equipment. The Ody will have to wait until next month, with the stipend then i will have 5000points and can get me the whole package.

One more thing about the ground skills: This means i have to take 3 kits with me to switch around, correct? Are there any weapons that are particularly useful in ground stfs? My last try on one of those was before they got split up into ground only and space only and back then aoe-knockback or split beam weapons worked well...maybe the breen freezegun is useful? And what kind of shields? Currently i use the jem-hadar set for the extra healing, although i have the feeling the weapon is not the most powerful one...

You also said to use ground doffs to boost the beamed down equipment. What kind of doffs are generally needed to make this work?

And thank you once again for all the useful advice here.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,703
# 24
09-14-2012, 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zubo100 View Post
Ah yes i have not really thought about ground skills. Thanks for the advice there.

Now this skillset looks nice. A lot of people use 3 points in power insulators and inertial dampeners, but i guess this is more important for PvP? Anyway i found out i still have 5 respecs left so i will try this out with an escort as soon as i have redone enough old episodes to have some basic equipment. The Ody will have to wait until next month, with the stipend then i will have 5000points and can get me the whole package.

One more thing about the ground skills: This means i have to take 3 kits with me to switch around, correct? Are there any weapons that are particularly useful in ground stfs? My last try on one of those was before they got split up into ground only and space only and back then aoe-knockback or split beam weapons worked well...maybe the breen freezegun is useful? And what kind of shields? Currently i use the jem-hadar set for the extra healing, although i have the feeling the weapon is not the most powerful one...

You also said to use ground doffs to boost the beamed down equipment. What kind of doffs are generally needed to make this work?

And thank you once again for all the useful advice here.
Stick with the hilbert pve skill set and escort and you have a pretty universal build right there. Don't really agree with maelwy, but will leave it at that.

Yest three kits for STFs,
weapons: you need: Split beam rifle (infected) sniper (all), high density rifle (infected boss room) shot gun (all) not sure what its called
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 25
09-14-2012, 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zubo100 View Post
Ah yes i have not really thought about ground skills. Thanks for the advice there.

Now this skillset looks nice. A lot of people use 3 points in power insulators and inertial dampeners, but i guess this is more important for PvP? Anyway i found out i still have 5 respecs left so i will try this out with an escort as soon as i have redone enough old episodes to have some basic equipment. The Ody will have to wait until next month, with the stipend then i will have 5000points and can get me the whole package.
Yeah, Insulators increase your resistance to power drains - there's very little at endgame PVE that will be draining you, and as an engineer you have access to boosting abilities like EPS or Nadeon anyway in an emergency.

Inertial Dampeners used to be a bit more useful than they currently are, but since the skillchanges there's not much in PVE that bothers you for longer than a few seconds (besides Tractor beams, which it doesn't really help with, and there are better counters for like APO and PH)

In a Cruiser you probably won't be bothered by Tractor beams much, but Escorts are another matter - it's hard to keep things in your anrrow weapon arcs when you can't turn. I'll usually bring a copy of APO1 or PH on anything running narrow-arc weapons for that reason.

For PVP, it'd be another ball game entirely and you'd probably be better off with a specialised build. I'd ramp up Insulators to 6 or 9 - but there's an argument against taking Dampeners if you're fighting anyone with TBR.

Quote:
One more thing about the ground skills: This means i have to take 3 kits with me to switch around, correct? Are there any weapons that are particularly useful in ground stfs? My last try on one of those was before they got split up into ground only and space only and back then aoe-knockback or split beam weapons worked well...maybe the breen freezegun is useful? And what kind of shields? Currently i use the jem-hadar set for the extra healing, although i have the feeling the weapon is not the most powerful one...

You also said to use ground doffs to boost the beamed down equipment. What kind of doffs are generally needed to make this work?

And thank you once again for all the useful advice here.
Yeah: Most of the Engineering kits are situationally useful -

+ Enemy Neutralization (Mines/Bombs vs normal mobs, Weapons Malfunction vs Bosses)
+ Breach Engineer (The "Self sufficient"/Soloing Kit)
+ Equipment Technician (Weapons Malfunction and Shield Recharge - "Tanking")
+ Bunker Fabrication (Defensive Fabrication Kit)
+ Fabrication Specialist (Offensive Fabrication Kit)

Generally speaking for Ground STFs you'll want a Pulsewave for normal encounters (high DPS and an AoE standard shot) and a Rifle for long-range shots.

The STF equipment sets (MACO and Omega for Feds) have an inherent "instant remodulator" power for a full set (3/3 pieces: armor, shields, weapon). The MACO equipment set comes with a decent rifle.

Concerning Ground DOFFs:

+ Borg Warfare Specialist ("Ledrene" - Obviously gives +Damage on STFs)
+ Armory Officer (Purple gives a decent chance to spawn 3 Turrets)
+ Explosives Expert (Purple gives a decent chance to spawn 3 Mortars)
+ Fabrication Engineer (Purple gives a decent chance to spawn 3 Support Drones)
+ Medic (Combined with Combat Supply, you'll summon NPC medics quite frequently)
+ Diagnostic Engineer (Odd choice perhaps, but you have kits with the Equipment Diagnostics ability - "Breach Engineer" being generally more useful than "Support Technician" - meaning you'll get the damage output buff quite regularly)

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 26
09-14-2012, 03:40 AM
Forgot to add:

There're a lot more tactics for Ground play, but much of it comes down to being aware of your surroundings and learning to always use both Aim and Crouch (to increase damage output and reduce damage taken) and rolling or sprinting everywhere to avoid some damage whilst moving.

One Engineer-specific thing is Combat Supply. This sometimes still gets a bad reputation due to its previous annoyingly-unpredictable behaviour from many patches ago, but currently it's quite useful. Using the power drops a container, which hangs around for a long time. You and your teammates can then gather items from this container. It's basically "Infinite Items": as long as you keep three free Device slots, you can gather 3 sets of five free large Health/Shield/Energy buffs whenever you want, and they'll appear as normal items in your power trays. The three stacks are gathered seperately, but you can't re-gather them until you use up the complete stack... so if you use a few health hypos and want to top up again before a big encounter, just drop the remaining hypos and re-gather at the container for a fresh set. The "free items" disappear after a while - but it's a VERY LONG time, chances are that your tribble buffs will expire before the items do.

Speaking of Tribbles, the "Gambling Device" (whilst not strictly a tribble, it works the same way) is generally considered the best option here, as it buffs your damage output considerably.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12
# 27
09-18-2012, 02:46 PM
Hello again

After some time and some thinking and testing i am now at a point where i no longer want to be a tank as a role but still want to be a Crusier-Pilot. I got myself the Oddy-bunde and like this ship very much.

As i see it most of that has already been discussed here so i only have three questions left:

1.)
Is there any way to distribute skillpoints(space) more efficiently/effectively if i want to use only an Oddy than in the above example? Or are the differences so minimal that i can choose the build above without regrets and the added bonus to be able to use an escort should the need arise? What would you do?

2.)
Since i have all 3 Oddy-Consoles: Should i use them all? The working bees are nice to have, the escort seem to be of minor help, but i like the separation very much. Still there is the set bonus which seems to give some additional bonuses, but is it really worth it to use them? Right now i have all 3 of them in the eng-console slots and the borg console in one of the sci-slots. So i only have one plate and one shield console left...enough?

3.)
6 Beams, 2 Launchers or more beams?

Thank you
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 28
09-19-2012, 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zubo100 View Post
Hello again

After some time and some thinking and testing i am now at a point where i no longer want to be a tank as a role but still want to be a Crusier-Pilot. I got myself the Oddy-bunde and like this ship very much.

As i see it most of that has already been discussed here so i only have three questions left:

1.)
Is there any way to distribute skillpoints(space) more efficiently/effectively if i want to use only an Oddy than in the above example? Or are the differences so minimal that i can choose the build above without regrets and the added bonus to be able to use an escort should the need arise? What would you do?

2.)
Since i have all 3 Oddy-Consoles: Should i use them all? The working bees are nice to have, the escort seem to be of minor help, but i like the separation very much. Still there is the set bonus which seems to give some additional bonuses, but is it really worth it to use them? Right now i have all 3 of them in the eng-console slots and the borg console in one of the sci-slots. So i only have one plate and one shield console left...enough?

3.)
6 Beams, 2 Launchers or more beams?

Thank you
1) I pretty much run the above build. You could do small things like buff Engine power a bit, and tease a little more out of your EPTX skills by increasing "Starship Electro-Plasma Systems" and "Starship Shield Emitters" - but the return will be minimal, and in all honesty an Engineer makes a pretty solid Escort Pilot.

2) Depends entirely on your playstyle. The 3-set bonus is actually quite nice due to its effect on Worker Bees and Chevron Seperation's recharges, but there are better ways to get a higher turn rate or more armor. Personally I quite like the additional abilities.

3) Again, playstyle. If you go 6/2 then I'd put the Launchers on the same end, either Fore or Aft. I've even seen some decent 2xDBB/2xTorp/4xTurret setups that rely on Chevron Seperation for maneuverability.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 29
09-19-2012, 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zubo100 View Post
Hello again

After some time and some thinking and testing i am now at a point where i no longer want to be a tank as a role but still want to be a Crusier-Pilot. I got myself the Oddy-bunde and like this ship very much.
When people tell you the best thing to bring is a Tac/Escort for PvE/STFs - they are generally correct due to how STFs are constructed.


I don't agree that you should only play that, as while its the most efficient its also far from necessary.
(I've personally organized cruiser-only Elite STFs where we finished with 7 or 8 minutes to spare on the optional - it's not brain surgery).

I play a variety of captains in a variety of ships and I like my cruisers for a change of pace.

Now, that out of the way...


If you really are going to bring an Engineer and you really are going to put him in a Cruiser then you really should be Tanking and/or Healing.

If you are not doing at least one of those things, then you really are wasting a spot on a team.

Your DPS will be low to middling at best, and the Escorts pumping out tons of damage will be the ones to take all of the borg's attention.

In other words, they will be doing all of the work and you will be along for the ride to basically collect loot that other people got for you.




So by all means, bring an eng and play a cruiser if that's what looks fun to you - but if you do so then set yourself up with 6 to 9 ranks of threat control and/or a lot of team healing.

Last edited by ussultimatum; 09-19-2012 at 08:45 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 30
09-20-2012, 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
If you are not doing at least one of those things, then you really are wasting a spot on a team.

Your DPS will be low to middling at best, and the Escorts pumping out tons of damage will be the ones to take all of the borg's attention.

In other words, they will be doing all of the work and you will be along for the ride to basically collect loot that other people got for you.
I am an engi pilot. And as much as it disgusts me to say this, he's right. Due to the way STFs are set up, engis in space are only good for tanking/healing. I even have an escort with full mk XII gear, and my tac on my klingon side with not full mk XII easily, and I say again EASILY out-damages my escort on my fed side. It's not fair, it's not right, but that's how it is. Engis are only good as tanks or healers, as ussultimatum said.

You have a problem with that, go bother the devs lol...
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
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