Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 11
09-13-2012, 06:00 PM
Nail. Head. I agree with Dassem's take on every single power. Shared cd is an especially good point.

VM is pretty ok, but only because there's not a lot of competition.

I don't want to derail this discussion of the abilities, but it's made more complex by the crappy sci console situation. Like if an ability does 2 things (hold and damage) you can only spec your consoles for 1 at a time. But maybe we should do a separate thread because this one is pretty on point.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 12
09-13-2012, 06:02 PM
1. Tac team needs to be nerfed more than sci team needs to be buffed
2. Transfer shields: ok
3. Hazard: should not clear energy siphon
4. Tractor beam: ok as a skill but it's too easy to chain two copies. needs more variation in rank
5. TB repulsors: ok
6. Polarize: ok but more movement resist sounds fine
7. Tachyon beam: generally useless
8. CPB: generally useless
9. Shockwave: range is fine. A damage increase would be acceptable
10. Photonic officer: waste of a boff slot. Even with 3 photonic doffs
11. Grav well: ok but needs the doff to get the most out of it
12. Tyken's: needs to be rank 3 with doff to be useful
13. Jam sensors: works fine for non-dps ships
14. Scramble: maybe buffed by 1 or 2 seconds but not more than that
15. Energy siphon: is fine except it's too easily cleared by hazard/borg set
16. FBP: agreed, too weak without tac buffs
17. Shared cooldowns: low priority

Last edited by bobtheyak; 09-13-2012 at 06:30 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,659
# 13
09-13-2012, 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I'd be interested in hearing more opinions on all of the above. As well as testing scenarios, if you run them, even if only anecdotal (no solid figures, that is).
A lot of them were under powered from the start, either nerfed in relation to power insulators, and the overall science ship setup itself for weapons doesn't help either since its usually the lowest dps of a group when using a science heavy/support ship. One thing besides science skills that I'd like to see though is a change that a former dev once suggested of transphasics being boosted dramatically in damage but given a much higher cool down so turn and shooting those torps so you could focus on more science tasks in a battle/not being decloaked all the time defeating the purpose of having the EBC. If transphasics and even chronitons if you just put a shield penetration on certain chroniton torps and called it temporal penetration based off where they came from (maybe put a delay timer on those chronitons to when they actually go off so you could tactical team to remove the torpedo and disarm it )

Feedback pulse, Tachyon Beam, CPB, and polarize Hull I'd like to see buffed the most though. The tachyon beam and CPB are pretty much useless on the standard resistances npcs have against them and a player doesn't need much more than just a power insulators console equipped to make it useless. The polarize hull is canon like one person said but all its really good for is getting out of tractor beams which most people use omega for anyways. Feedback pulse is just too much of a conditional skill... The first thing is it really has no functionality when you can't hold agro in pve and even then if you spec threat control to maximum it doesn't last long and the cool down is way too long. The easiest counter to it in PvP though is to just stop firing at someone for 10 seconds. I could see though if it could force targeting of a person using it and did more damage without having to make sure you have 125 aux when fireing it. Another thing too is Scramble Sensors just isn't what I believe it should be plus its so short and after its used on someone they get a resistance to it like you can throw another one back on them anytime soon after that LOL. It just does not have any kind of advantage imo. Anyways I hope some decent changes come out of it because I am sure there will be some
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 14
09-13-2012, 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:

Sci Team
- needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT

Agreed. As suggested below (under Polarize Hull), active debuffs (generated from an outside source), should not be cleared, but rather given a bit of resistance.

Transfer Shield Strength
- Is OK

Agreed.

Hazard Emitters
- Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-

Debuffs which are placed on you (fire and forget), should be cleared. Debuffs which are persistent (generated by enemy target, generated by "rifts" etc), should NOT be cleared. See "Polarize Hull" idea below.

Tractor Beam
- Ok as ship ability

Agreed. However, I'd like to see higher ranks give the ability additional "hold" strength, OR preferrably even allow players to "tow" the enemy target for it's duration. Should also be able to be cast on friendly players, in order to "pull them out of danger". For example a ship with engines disabled, stuck in a gravity well.

Tractor Beam Repulsors
- Is OK

Agreed.

Polarize Hull
- A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed

This suggestion I like. Would also see that Polarize Hull, reduces the effectiveness of "Energy Siphon" and "Tyken's Rift", since you are actively shielding the hull from external power drains.

Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%

Definitely needs a Damage increase. Science doesn't have a whole lot of "Damage abilities", so it would be nice to get some truly offensive powers, to complement our large array of defensive powers.

Charged Particle Burst
- Same as Tachyon beam

Agreed.

Photonic Shockwave
- Needs to get range and damage slightly increased

Neutral. Think it works rather well, but I think all types of effects that are generated "around your ship" should have a consistent range across the board.

Photonic Officer
- Needs to be made a lot more effective.

Neutral. Haven't used the ability much.

Gravety Well
- Pulls too weak, damages too little

Pull is fine, but I agree with the damage being too low. It's not like Science ships can fit a lot of weapons or tactical abilities, so it would be nice to get some damage increase to our "offensive abilities". A Gravity Well is an incredibly strong force (another name, being a black hole), so it's kinda dumb that it's damage potential is like a wet noodle.

Tykens Rift
- Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts

Agreed.

Jam Sensors
- Basically useless. Needs remake.

Jam Sensors should ideally jam the targets sensors, from targeting ANYONE for the duration. Would also be nice if the ability didn't "break" so easily if someone should continue firing on the target.

Scramble Sensors
- Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.

Similar to Jam Sensors. Target(s) sensors should be scrambled as such that they quite literally CAN'T target a specific enemy for the duration. The caveat being, that while the sensors are scrambled, they might still hit you.

Energy Siphon
- Needs a little buff

Neutral. Haven't used much.

FBP
- Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.

Haven't used Feedback Pulse in a while, but I thought it's strength was acceptable at the time. Rather than being a "buff" on your ship, Feedback Pulse should however be a Debuff placed on the enemy ship, which causes it's next attack, or next attack(s) for a duration, to inflict self-damage.
Added my two cents in Yellow.

Last edited by meurik; 09-13-2012 at 06:27 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,491
# 15
09-13-2012, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:

Sci Team
- needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT
I Think all team powers should clear buffs for 10 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Transfer Shield Strength
- Is OK
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Hazard Emitters
- Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon- & Tyken's Rift
Agreed that Hazard clears too many debuffs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Tractor Beam
- Ok as ship ability

Tractor Beam Repulsors
- Is OK
I agree both work fine as they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Polarize Hull
- A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
Honestly, I think the way Polarized Hull should work, is Polarized Hull 1 doesn't provide FULL Immunity vs Tractor Beams but perhaps a Resistance vs Immobolizes in general. Perhaps Version 1 Can provide up to a 40% Resist with some skill.. Version 2 can provide up to a 75% Resist with skill help, and Version 3 gives the full immunity. This would be in addition to the Nice Resist gains given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%

Charged Particle Burst
- Same as Tachyon beam
Yeah, Tachyon Beam and Charged Particle Burst kinda blow right now in PVP. In PVE how ever they are fine. But I agree something needs to be done to make them both more effective in PVP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Photonic Shockwave
- Needs to get range and damage slightly increased
I don't know about the Range of Shockwave being increased. I'd be more interested in them increasing the Stun duration slightly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Photonic Officer
- Needs to be made a lot more effective.
Maybe it should also reduce GLOBAL cool downs. But that's my thoughts on that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Gravety Well
- Pulls too weak, damages too little
Hmm.. this one I don't know if I agree with.. But It would be nice if engine power played a bigger factor in the pull. And varied with each version of Gravity well. With Gravity well 3 perhaps needing at least 75+ Engine power to escape, but Gravity well 1 would be as Gravity well is now. Also perhaps make it so the damage automatically bypasses shields or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Tykens Rift
- Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
To true. Hazard Emitters first needs to stop clearing Tykens. Then perhaps double the amount of Stacking that Tykens can do. Because currently it caps out at 2 Stacks and those are heavily Resisted by the same skills that resists Energy Siphon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Jam Sensors
- Basically useless. Needs remake.
A-freeking-greed.. I always figure it should work as follows:
Jam 1 single target placate
Jam 2 Multi target Placate (Up to maybe 2-4 targets tops including NPC's)
Jam 3: Mass target placate (Fires a Scramble like Blob that effects all enemies in the radius)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Scramble Sensors
- Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
Sensors Resists it too heavily. With a good 6 Points in Sensors I hardly notice even Scramble 3 for too long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Energy Siphon
- Needs a little buff
Honestly, I think it should drain twice as much as it gives. So if it gives +40, it should drain -80 With resists bringing it down to -20 maybe? Or Resists + Consoles + Deflector bringing it down that far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
FBP
- Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.
Agreed. Especially Versions 1 and 2. FBP 3 how ever can be useful even with out Tac buffs, but with Tac buffs it's a Monster. Perhaps just remove the ability to buff it and bring it up to where tac buffs are now, then do the same for FBP 1 and FBP 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
- GW and Tykens
- Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.
- TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS.

Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.
You forgot Viral Matrix. Which works fine, but is stronger with Doffs.
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Think about this:
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 16
09-13-2012, 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
I Think all team powers should clear buffs for 10 seconds.
Agreed but the secondary shield distribution effect from tac team shouldn't last as long as the buff clearing effect.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 17
09-13-2012, 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:

Sci Team
- needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT
Dear God No. That's actually the single worst part about TT is the debuff clear.

Transfer Shield Strength
- Is OK
Agreed though mark 1 can use a boost

Hazard Emitters
- Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-
agreed completely. The only thing this damn thing should clear is Warp Plasma.

Tractor Beam
- Ok as ship ability
Agreed

Tractor Beam Repulsors
- Is OK
Agreed

Polarize Hull
- A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
yep

Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%

Charged Particle Burst
- Same as Tachyon beam
Both of these skills need to have their resistances dialed back (so that max spec = 25 percent Resistance.. not 50)

Photonic Shockwave
- Needs to get range and damage slightly increased
Actually all it needs is a damage boost, and have it regain the ability to actually stun a target. Whoever decided that you should be able to use Team abilities through it needs to get fired

Photonic Officer
- Needs to be made a lot more effective.
I remember initially how excited soupy and I were to get our PO3 boff... and then how disappointed we were almost immediately afterwards... I don't know if there's really a way to fix this either. Maybe just trash the ability all together as it is now, and replace it with some kind of super sci skill buff instead

Gravety Well
- Pulls too weak, damages too little
Yep

Tykens Rift
- Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
Too weak as normal. works fine with Doffs. Seriously man it's a 1 a minute shot. ontop of that, you need it to proc 2 times . And that's far from a reliable strategy to use it. I think if they gave it a slight negative repel value it could go along way to fixing it's issues.... oh yeah, and hazards shouldn't clear it

Jam Sensors
- Basically useless. Needs remake.
Stupid ass ability. It should be an AOE that lasts 7 seconds unless broken or cleared

Scramble Sensors
- Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
Stupid ass game mechanic period, that has no place in pvp. I say sack it all together

Energy Siphon
- Needs a little buff
I'm not so sure about that. I get all giggly every time I deploy it, and then deploy a Tykens, and target sub spam

FBP
- Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.
Honestly it's fine on either tac or sci. For tacs to utilize it properly it comes at great expense to their shield tanking during FBPs duration (god forbid you get Sub Nuked during it's start up phase. Also stop shooting the guy with Overloads seriously that's the only way tac buffed FBP2 or 3 kills you faster than you can react people) for Sci you can still hold Sci Fleet in reserve if necessary and sen scan.

Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
- GW and Tykens
- Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.
- TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS.
GW and TR have 0 business sharing a CD. Same with Tykens and ES... FBP and TSS however, yeah they should. Otherwise you'd be a complete moron to not have FBP on your ship, no matter what class you play

Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.
Responses are Bolded.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 148
# 18
09-13-2012, 09:26 PM
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 19
09-13-2012, 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkwhite0 View Post
Gonna have to steal that one
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,620
# 20
09-13-2012, 10:31 PM
all team skills should clear for 10 seconds!? what the hell people, whats wrong with you. try 1 second, as in it clears what you are afflicted with at the time of its activation, without some immunity period for an entire 5-10 seconds.

ET and ST should get a 10 second long buff to something though, hull repair for ET and shield emitters for ST, to improve the healing of other like healing skills for a wile. its like how TT buffs weapons training for 10 seconds. and these buffs should be high, like +24, +32,+40 to skill points in these skills.
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