Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 403
# 1 My Rant About Foundry Missions
09-14-2012, 02:49 PM
Let me start by saying I think the Foundry is the best part of STO. To be able to make missions and play missions by other players really makes up for the lack of content that would otherwise plague this game.

NOW FOR MY RANT:

TBH I have ended up dropping at least twice as many Foundry missions as I have completed,, always for the same reason, which are entirely the fault of the author of the mission. It really blows to be enjoying a mission with a really good storyline and have to drop it simply because the author made one of these simple to avoid mistakes. In the interest of actually PLAYABLE missions, I will list these flaws here so hopefully (if anyone reads this) authors will avoid making them in the future.

NUMBER ONE REASON I DROP YOUR MISSION:

Objective impossible to locate:
Many of the missions have TINY TINY TINY spots you must reach in order to activate or complete an objective. If I can't get to the objective I can't continue the mission. You CAN adjust the size of the trigger area and make it easier to get to.

NUMBER TWO REASON I DROP YOUR MISSION:

Objectives in space so far apart I spend more time flying to them than doing them:
I don't think anyone plays this game for the joy of flying in a straight line trying to get to the next enemy.

NUMBER THREE REASON I DROP YOUR MISSION:

Too much crap to navigate:
By this I refer to SCENERY. I just dropped an otherwise awesome mission because the borg facility was filled with SO MUCH JUNK that I had to stop every ten feet and wait for my BOFFs to figure out how to get around, under, through, or past it. On top of that I could not after twenty minutes of running in circles find the way to the room where the next objective was. IT IS COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY to have so much scenery. A few consoles, a device here and there is enough to make it look cool. If I have to battle just to move I will certainly not want to finish the mission.

NUMBER FOUR REASON I DROP YOUR MISSION:

BAD spawn points. I have had to drop at least five missions because upon beaming down or otherwise entering the next map, my BOFFS were spawned inside an object and could not move. This should be really easy to realize, and when it happens (especially late in a long mission) it is nothing short of maddening. Once your BOFF is stuck in a rock, wall, console, or other stupid scenery, the mission is over, especially for those of us that like to play on elite difficulty.

NUMBER FIVE REASON I DROP YOUR MISSION:

Too many NPCs to talk to. THIS MEANS YOU CAPTAIN REVO! lol It's completely a waste of time to have to talk to fifteen NPCs about the mission just to get to the next part. One, maybe two NPCs can serve the purpose.

I realize this was a rant, and so it was titled as such, but these points will make a playable mission out of your great idea instead of a big pain in the Bat'leth. Today I started and dropped four missions in a row without completing any of them, all because of things like this. Once I lose fifteen minutes trying to do something as simple as "locate the console" it really becomes pointless to play the mission.

Hopefully this is more helpful than ranting, but I have a feeling the ones who do this stuff aren;t the ones that read the forums. Q'apla!

Last edited by glassguitar; 09-14-2012 at 02:56 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 669
# 2
09-14-2012, 03:06 PM
1)Please list examples of missions that past muster

2)Please list your own missions showing your workarounds of your above listed grievances.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 3
09-14-2012, 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by castsbugc View Post
2)Please list your own missions showing your workarounds of your above listed grievances.
Nope, wrong request. You don't need to be a cook to say you liked the plat du jour.

Agreed with some of the grievances. Not with all of them. You can use V to find props to scan or locations to reach, you know?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,054
# 4
09-14-2012, 03:34 PM
Some of the critiques are certainly vaild, but there are some other things that we simply cannot control. For example, if a player changes elevation too much, the reach marker may be really hard or impossible to find. That's why I rarely use them in space. Instead I use invis objects, because the scanner takes the player to them.

So, that's sort of in our control somewhat, but what drives me crazy is how inconsistent things are in foundry missions. If it's an object, the scanner takes you there. If it's a reach marker, you have to hit M.

Otherwise, we can't really do much about the BOs spawning in floors and objects. That is a cryptic bug. If we need to build up in the air, it's simply unavoidable, as is how badly the boffs are scripted to path, or whether or not they start shooting through walls.

And there are also some stuff to remember with interiors. A lot of those maps are filled with objects not by us, but by the dev that made the map. Crates everywhere! Despite the fact that we could add crates if we want them. We can't take many of those details out of the maps. They are baked in, especially with interiors.

Many of those details are baked into that Borg map, so an author has to either a. use the one with nothing and start from scratch or b. use the one that is cluttered with stuff.

It's also bad when the cryptic cave maps are inherently frustrating to navigate, even without a single added thing.

Last edited by kirksplat; 09-14-2012 at 03:36 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 5
09-14-2012, 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
Some of the critiques are certainly vaild, but there are some other things that we simply cannot control. For example, if a player changes elevation too much, the reach marker may be really hard or impossible to find. That's why I rarely use them in space. Instead I use invis objects, because the scanner takes the player to them.

So, that's sort of in our control somewhat, but what drives me crazy is how inconsistent things are in foundry missions. If it's an object, the scanner takes you there. If it's a reach marker, you have to hit M.

Otherwise, we can't really do much about the BOs spawning in floors and objects. That is a cryptic bug. If we need to build up in the air, it's simply unavoidable, as is how badly the boffs are scripted to path, or whether or not they start shooting through walls.

And there are also some stuff to remember with interiors. A lot of those maps are filled with objects not by us, but by the dev that made the map. Crates everywhere! Despite the fact that we could add crates if we want them. We can't take many of those details out of the maps. They are baked in, especially with interiors.

Many of those details are baked into that Borg map, so an author has to either a. use the one with nothing and start from scratch or b. use the one that is cluttered with stuff.

It's also bad when the cryptic cave maps are inherently frustrating to navigate, even without a single added thing.
Reach marker in space is a really bad idea. It's not recommanded not to use them, you should simply not use them at all, ust because any good map isn't... flat. a good author will always use the Y levels to simulate something more interesting. It's also buggy, since it won't complete the objective if you're already deep inside the marked zone. It can create a lot of frustration if you're a player and not aware of this.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,987
# 6
09-14-2012, 03:43 PM
Some of these are what I would call personal preferences, such as the number of people you need to talk to. That's up to each author to make those choices. Some will choose to cater to players like you, some will not. Not every Foundry mission is going to be to your liking. Just like not every game mission or in fact not every game is going to be to your liking based on certain design decision. You can ask us to cater to your likes specifically, but then someone else will come along and say "why didn't I get to talk to more people?"

That said, there are some things, such as BOFFs spawning in objects, that can in some cases be fixed and in some cases cannot because of how wonky the engine is. Just take a look at Kirksplat's bug thread about BOFF spawns. I've seen other cases where a mission can completely bug out, but be fine the next time its played. Sometimes I've even seen where beaming back to your ship and continuing where you left off will fix a spawn problem.

I would ask, and maybe you are already doing this, that if you have a technical issue with a mission, that you e-mail the author's @handle and let them know. It could be as simple as making a minor tweak to a spawn point, or it may not be fixable at all. If they don't know, they can't find out.

We're like any game developers. We can test and test and test, but we're not going to catch everything.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,054
# 7
09-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Reach marker in space is a really bad idea. It's not recommanded not to use them, you should simply not use them at all, ust because any good map isn't... flat. a good author will always use the Y levels to simulate something more interesting. It's also buggy, since it won't complete the objective if you're already deep inside the marked zone. It can create a lot of frustration if you're a player and not aware of this.
I agree. I tend to only use them with planets for beam downs. For some reason, if they are really big, they seem reliable, which makes me wonder if their y bulk (for lack of a better term) increases with the size of a radius.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14,497
# 8
09-14-2012, 04:17 PM
Is it possible to interact with a planet for a beam down?
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,512
# 9
09-14-2012, 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
I agree. I tend to only use them with planets for beam downs. For some reason, if they are really big, they seem reliable, which makes me wonder if their y bulk (for lack of a better term) increases with the size of a radius.


The radius is 3 dimensional
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,963
# 10
09-14-2012, 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glassguitar View Post

Too many NPCs to talk to. THIS MEANS YOU CAPTAIN REVO! lol It's completely a waste of time to have to talk to fifteen NPCs about the mission just to get to the next part. One, maybe two NPCs can serve the purpose.
I appreciate that my missions can not please everybody and I'm sorry that the way I choose to make my missions is not to your personal taste to the point where you feel the need to personally call me out over it, but I have absolutely no intention of compromising my stories because one person does not like the amount of talking and dialogue in the mission. I'm not a professional writer or anything, I'm just some random guy making missions for fun, so I wont get it perfect every time but those NPC's are there for a reason.

At the end of the day I am telling a story and these characters are not there to just get you to the next part as fast as possible. They are part of the interactive experience of the mission. I want them there.

I'm sure I could condense the talking down to a fraction of what I use but I don't want to. That damages the story that I am trying to tell. I certainly don't want people to get bored or turned off by needless talking that waffles on but if I feel the missions requires it then I will add them.

If this is not to your taste then that's fine, as I said I don't expect it to appeal to everybody but in future I would advise just skipping my missions because this is not something I plan on changing.

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