Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,131
# 31
09-15-2012, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjumetley View Post
There's also a fleet version of Galaxy, so the separation has to be bound to a console.
Aside from "what yreodred said" the fleet version was only introduced lately. The Gal-R sits there for 2 and a half years at least. Seperation being a console doesn't make much sense, that's all. It's not that you could just pull the plug and the ship is suddenly incapable of seperating...

@ yreodred: regarding the weapons my personal theory is that STO is more or less just a mod of "Champions online". I have never played that, but let's tone it down to the fact that STO basically just puts Star Trek-themed skins over an existing game and in this game you probably have all those weapon choices that they somehow had to "translate" to a Star Trek game. Why on earth they decided that Miniguns, Blast Assault Rifles, Plasma Grenades and all that stuff had to be in this game is anyones guess but it may be just a result of the limited possibliites the DEVs had to work with. Who knows...
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,825
# 32
09-15-2012, 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
The Galaxy class will never be properly fixed. I've advocated time and time again for a universal ensign and a third tactical console for the fleet version so that it matches the fleet Negh'var. Cryptic's official response in a radio interview was "DERP ITS FINE AS IT IS LOL", which proves that Cryptic doesn't care what the players think about this issue.
I am puzzling, why do they refuse to change this ship. Is it laziness, incompetence or do you think they just hate the Galaxy Class?

I just don't get it, there are more than enough people wanting this ship to be more like in the shows and the devs are just laughing and saying that is is ok as it is?
(which is simply not true.)

I really want to understand their motives.



Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
@ yreodred: regarding the weapons my personal theory is that STO is more or less just a mod of "Champions online". I have never played that, but let's tone it down to the fact that STO basically just puts Star Trek-themed skins over an existing game and in this game you probably have all those weapon choices that they somehow had to "translate" to a Star Trek game. Why on earth they decided that Miniguns, Blast Assault Rifles, Plasma Grenades and all that stuff had to be in this game is anyones guess but it may be just a result of the limited possibliites the DEVs had to work with. Who knows...
I think they did what they always do, they just add things they think are "cool".
They don't care about what would be appropriate to Star Trek, they just add what they like.
The devs of STO treat Star Trek as if it where there own creation, i think CBS or whoever has the rights on Star Trek should keep an rigorous eye on this game.
Other francises are much better "protected" just think about Lord of the Rings. There are actually a lot of people that boycott Peter Jacksons movies. What would those people do if they where Star trek fans and had to see what Cryptic has done to "their" Star Trek?


Live long and prosper.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
T6 Guardian Class design / A 25th century Ambassador refit

Last edited by yreodred; 09-15-2012 at 05:23 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 33
09-16-2012, 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
You can not compare ship performance using hit point numbers, shield mod numbers and default turnrates. If that were so, escorts would be the worst ships to play in the game, but that's not the case. Its after you add in your best skill tree set up, consoles and equipment then those default stats change. The Galaxy-R fairs the worst out of all the cruisers. You can put in the Galaxy-R the exact same equipment you put in your Dreadnought and you well see that Galaxy-r shield and weapon power far less and the shield will be squishier. That's why you have to test things, don't just believe the stats on it first.
Actualy I was comparing the base stats only since the difference between the BOff setups is just an ensign and I mentioned this here "The only real difference between these ships in the ensign level BO slot. So the real problem is the same as the defiant r and the intrepid r, there arent enough useful ensign level powers to really use 3 ensign slots for one career.". I went on to suggest how to make it stronger "A simple solution would be to allow you to use any costume on the t5 and up cuisers."(snip). As for testing I own all of the ships in question and don't generaly find my shields any weaker than in any other ship. What i do find is that combat takes longer and I lack a diversity in my healing abilitys. Mainly its due to the global cool downs on most engineering abilitys. An example is in a Dread I can run; 2 epts 1's 2 tt 1's 1 rsp 1 or 2 and a TS1 giving me at any time 3 shield heals and 1 shield buff. on a galaxy I can only run one TT so I loose that and with all ept powers on a shared cool down the only thing available for an 3rd ensign engineer is an ET 1 which is useless for shield healing and generaly useless for any meaningful hull heal it will also put my TT into cooldown.

The fact is that no evidence has been provided to support your theory that the galaxy R is some how weaker stat wise and with no evidence to suggest that it's base stats are different from that of any of the other cruisers I compared it with what we are left with is only your general impression that it is some how inferior. I also note that at no point in this thread has any one seriously suggested a change or fix to the existing ship other than that it should be as powerful as it was in the show or that it get a universal ensign. I have only seen assumptions made that it must be inferior because the developers don't like it or tng or you some how.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 258
# 34
09-16-2012, 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
I also note that at no point in this thread has any one seriously suggested a change or fix to the existing ship other than that it should be as powerful as it was in the show or that it get a universal ensign.
It should be as powerful as in the show, but understandably it can't. I don't see the Galaxy inferior but that ensign slot bugs me as hell. There are two solutions to this problem:
1) Make the ensign slot universal, or
2) Introduce new abilities an engineering ensign can use. Right now scientists and tacticians have a wider spectrum of choices which means less cooldown conflicts.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 35
09-16-2012, 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjumetley View Post
It should be as powerful as in the show, but understandably it can't. I don't see the Galaxy inferior but that ensign slot bugs me as hell. There are two solutions to this problem:
1) Make the ensign slot universal, or
2) Introduce new abilities an engineering ensign can use. Right now scientists and tacticians have a wider spectrum of choices which means less cooldown conflicts.
Consider this, it may well be just as powerful as it was in the show but almost 50 years have passed and we are several generations of shipping in the future so everything its being compared to is just more powerful than it ever was.

Also the ensign powers need looked at across the board, engineering may be the worst but generaly there aren't very many utility powers available below LT.

Tactical has beam, torpedo, and team powers at ensign and they only share a cool down with like systems so its only a real problem if you aren't using one of those weapons types

Science probably has the most variety but 3 of the powers are almost useless.

Engineering really gets the shaft with 4 of its 5 available powers all sharing a cooldown and its only other power sharing a cool down with the other 2 discipline's utility powers.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,131
# 36
09-16-2012, 03:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
I also note that at no point in this thread has any one seriously suggested a change or fix to the existing ship other than that it should be as powerful as it was in the show or that it get a universal ensign. I have only seen assumptions made that it must be inferior because the developers don't like it or tng or you some how.
Then you should read the thread more closely. The suggestions were in fact a universal ensign slot, a built-in ability for the seperation and a slight energy boost other T5 STORE ships share. The Gal-R is a ship you have to spent money, at least Zen, on, yet there is no justification as to why it get's so ill treated in comparision.

Yes, it is a retrofit and newer ugly ships Cryptic creates should be "better" - no one argues with that, the base stats are actually fine. But they could make it somehow worthwhile with those iprovements (ensign slot, ability, energy boni) OR just add it to the ships players can get for a token or via dilithium. Buying this ship makes no sense.
-> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- -> Click if you prefer the old forum design! <-
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"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 37
09-16-2012, 04:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
Then you should read the thread more closely. The suggestions were in fact a universal ensign slot, a built-in ability for the seperation and a slight energy boost other T5 STORE ships share. The Gal-R is a ship you have to spent money, at least Zen, on, yet there is no justification as to why it get's so ill treated in comparision.

Yes, it is a retrofit and newer ugly ships Cryptic creates should be "better" - no one argues with that, the base stats are actually fine. But they could make it somehow worthwhile with those iprovements (ensign slot, ability, energy boni) OR just add it to the ships players can get for a token or via dilithium. Buying this ship makes no sense.
In your quote of my quote I did mention the universal ensign. And if your a 600 day veteran you can get this ship for free (prior to F2P it was free anyway.). If its saucer seperation were an integrated ability that means the cheveron sep would have to be for the oddy. A universal ensign would be nice but then the Negh'var has the same layout so does it get one too? its also one of the cheeper ships so why should it carry the same value as the more expensive ones?
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 38
09-16-2012, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjumetley View Post
There's also a fleet version of Galaxy, so the separation has to be bound to a console.
The sauser separation should be a natural ship ability and not a console. The Fleet version should have its own as well, because the console can't be used in another type ship. Only Galaxy's can use that Sauser seperation console. The cosonles should be abilities that any ship can use and the are rarely used like AMS, Theta Radiation, Takyon Grid, Aceton Assimilator and instead of the sauser separation, use the massive energy discharge that was used to try to destroy the Borg Cube but was prevented by Locutas. Those are rarely used abilities in the show and can be used one anyship.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 39
09-16-2012, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
The sauser separation should be a natural ship ability and not a console. The Fleet version should have its own as well, because the console can't be used in another type ship. Only Galaxy's can use that Sauser seperation console. The cosonles should be abilities that any ship can use and the are rarely used like AMS, Theta Radiation, Takyon Grid, Aceton Assimilator and instead of the sauser separation, use the massive energy discharge that was used to try to destroy the Borg Cube but was prevented by Locutas. Those are rarely used abilities in the show and can be used one anyship.
Only galaxys can use THAT seperation console the oddy has the same thing. And no c-store ship past RA or BG has a console that can be used on other ships. AMS is a galaxy console and can be used on any other ship regardless. And cryptic has said that c-store ships with innate abilitys will never have fleet versions. BTW AMS theta radiation and asceton assimilator are used constantly. The tachyon grid is broken at the moment which is why no one uses it. Also saucer sep, detection grid, ablative generator, and the 2 fed cloaking ships used to be innate powers pre F2P they were removed and a console slot was added as well as the power being changed to a console. So if you want to go back you are still out that console slot.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,131
# 40
09-16-2012, 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
In your quote of my quote I did mention the universal ensign. And if your a 600 day veteran you can get this ship for free (prior to F2P it was free anyway.). If its saucer seperation were an integrated ability that means the cheveron sep would have to be for the oddy. A universal ensign would be nice but then the Negh'var has the same layout so does it get one too? its also one of the cheeper ships so why should it carry the same value as the more expensive ones?
Well, I don't count the veteran reward as a legitimate bonus. 600-day-veterancy equals roughly 20 months of payment which is around 300 $ (!!!) - for "free"...

Yes, it was a free VA-ship prior to F2P (I was a subscriber back in the days) - but now it's not anymore. 600-day reward see above. And yes, let the oddysey have that, too. Why not? Grant the Bortas some built-in ability too, of course. A universal ensign for the negh'var would be nice indeed, but keep in mind that the negh'var is a FREE ship. The Gal-R isn't.

And even though it's 500Z cheaper than an oddysey (which is a weak argument since the only ships the Gal can compete with are FREE ones) no one says that it should get exactly the same or be superior to any of the more expensive ones. Plain energy boni, universal ensign, built-in ability. Everything else can stay the same.
-> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- -> Click if you prefer the old forum design! <-
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"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
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