Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
Cryptic,

The turn rate for Federation cruisers like the Galaxy Class are just awful. The turn rate is a discouraging and cumbersome 6 for the Galaxy. It's counterpart, the Vor'cha is slightly better at 7, but the Negh'var gets a whopping turn rate of 9. This is hardly an accurate reflection of starship maneuverability from the TV shows.

The Galaxy was known for being quite maneuverable for a ship of its size. The Negh'Var was slightly larger, and built for sheer strength and force over speed. I know the Galaxy is a tier 4 ship, and the Negh'var a tier 5 ship in STO. However, it still doesn't make sense that a larger battleship should have a higher turn rate. Even the Excelsior has a lower turn rate of 8.

The Exploration Cruiser Retrofit helps somewhat because it can saucer separate, but w.o saucer separation it's still has a sluggish turn rate of 6. Besides, some people might prefer the extra survivability of being unseparated. Therefore, the turn rate should be adjusted for the Galaxy. I suggest making a new turn rate of 9 for the Galaxy so it doesn't handle like a train.

The Constitution has a turn rate of 9 and the K'T'inga has a turn rate of 11. This further unbalances gameplay as the Constitution has the same turn rate of the Negh'var, and the K'T'Inga has an even higher turn rate. I won't go into details on how the Constitution should be equal to the K'T'Inga, that is for a separate topic. But for the current topic, the turn rate of the Constitution should be 11.

The Excelsior should have a turn rate of 10 and the Nebula a turn rate of 9.

Thank you
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,165
# 2
09-19-2012, 09:27 PM
all federations cruisers should have +2 to their turn rate. and the vorcha has a turn rate of 10, not 7.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,834
# 3
09-19-2012, 09:44 PM
Yes, Cruisers should get a similar turnrate as Science ships.
I am not starting to list some canon sources that say federation cruisers should be more maneuverable (which is true), they are just boring to fly, thats all.
I have never seen a StarTrek game treating Cruiser so bad as STO.
Here, Cruisers are just big cumbersome flying bricks that cannot turn and only a few have enough firepower to seriously strike back. (Just being able to take Damage is NOT fun! IMHO)


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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 4
09-20-2012, 12:28 AM
No. Fed cruisers are just fine, assuming you know how to use the darn things. They aren't supposed to be nimble.

If you really want a nimble cruiser, just get some evasive maneuver Conn doffs, stock up with Aux2Dampeners and other mobility-boosters (including engine batteries), and get Pattern Omega if your cruiser of choice has a LTC tac slot.

You want an innately nimble cruiser, join KDF and fly a Vor'cha (or the fleet Tor'kaht).
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,165
# 5
09-20-2012, 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
No. Fed cruisers are just fine, assuming you know how to use the darn things. They aren't supposed to be nimble.

If you really want a nimble cruiser, just get some evasive maneuver Conn doffs, stock up with Aux2Dampeners and other mobility-boosters (including engine batteries), and get Pattern Omega if your cruiser of choice has a LTC tac slot.

You want an innately nimble cruiser, join KDF and fly a Vor'cha (or the fleet Tor'kaht).
turning your build completely upside down so its terrble at doing cruisers things just so you can have turn rate bursts is not a solution, the kdf cruiser doesn't have to do any of that. fed cruisers are an anomaly within the game, everything but enormous carriers turns better, MUCH better. buffing their turn rate by 2 would put them back in the same ball park as everything else, and still be at the very low end. theres no reason for the average fed cruiser to have a turn rate between 3 and 5 worse then a kdf cruiser.

a kdf cruiser can do the same amount of support and healing as a fed cruiser, AND turn better. if it feels like it, it can crank up its turning with 2 or 3 consoles, equip DHCs, and be a dps monster, and a decent support ship. the federation ship simply cant, and it gets no other advantage for its disadvantage. there is a huge imbalance between fed and kdf cruisers because of this, imbalances should be fixed. giving them all+2 to turn would at least allow ships like the regent the ability to effectively use single cannons.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,051
# 6
09-20-2012, 01:15 AM
Agree, it's not decently balanced in the cruiser world ATM.
However I have to throw in that Fed cruisers should be less maneuverable than the Klingon counterparts (sans the Negh'var) simply because they are usually twice their mass.
What I think should be done is improve their other stats.
Shields, particularly the hull and also their power systems to reflect their larger size.
In other words: Large Fed cruisers like the Galaxy should be able to tank a lot more than they can now while the Klingon counterparts should be somewhere in the middle between their "escort-type" ships and the Fed cruisers.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,590
# 7
09-20-2012, 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Agree, it's not decently balanced in the cruiser world ATM.
However I have to throw in that Fed cruisers should be less maneuverable than the Klingon counterparts (sans the Negh'var) simply because they are usually twice their mass.
What I think should be done is improve their other stats.
Shields, particularly the hull and also their power systems to reflect their larger size.
In other words: Large Fed cruisers like the Galaxy should be able to tank a lot more than they can now while the Klingon counterparts should be somewhere in the middle between their "escort-type" ships and the Fed cruisers.
You've both got a point. But take this into account. If you increase the turn rate on cruisers, KDF players will cry foul because they will lose their advantage in both PvP and PvE. If you derp KDF cruisers to match their actual mass and have them sacrifice hull strength, armor, and innate damage resistance as they should have per your argument, then KDF players will cry foul because they lose their advantage in both PvP and PvE. HOWEVER if you leave things as is, Federation players will cry bull crap because their cruisers blow at doing anything but taking damage.

It's a Q.Q fest out there regardless of what happens. And before you start defending yourselves and saying "no we won't", think carefully, and tell me if that really will be the case for ALL players on ALL sides.

It's a lose lose situation, there is no way for both sides to be happy.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 8
09-20-2012, 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
turning your build completely upside down so its terrble at doing cruisers things just so you can have turn rate bursts is not a solution, the kdf cruiser doesn't have to do any of that. fed cruisers are an anomaly within the game, everything but enormous carriers turns better, MUCH better. buffing their turn rate by 2 would put them back in the same ball park as everything else, and still be at the very low end. theres no reason for the average fed cruiser to have a turn rate between 3 and 5 worse then a kdf cruiser.

a kdf cruiser can do the same amount of support and healing as a fed cruiser, AND turn better. if it feels like it, it can crank up its turning with 2 or 3 consoles, equip DHCs, and be a dps monster, and a decent support ship. the federation ship simply cant, and it gets no other advantage for its disadvantage. there is a huge imbalance between fed and kdf cruisers because of this, imbalances should be fixed. giving them all+2 to turn would at least allow ships like the regent the ability to effectively use single cannons.
There's an imbalance? Good. 'Cause Fed escorts beat the cr@p out of KDF escorts for the most part, especially the fleet ones. The feddies also have a selection of dedicated dilithium-bought science ships, which are quite effective in the right hands. So, we get the better cruisers as a tradeoff. Or, the Feddies could get used to not being able to turn on a dime in their space whales. I've seen Fed cruisers do fine on tanking and DPS in PvP. . .you just have to know what to do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,266
# 9
09-20-2012, 03:35 AM
I don't think it is too much of a problem. Mainly because I never liked PvP much (just me really. Not an antisocial thing its more of a avoidance of tools.) Fed Cruisers are nice looking for the most part aside from some hideous design work. But back to the point I want to make. Cruisers are not about speed, it is more about taking damage and dishing out a fair amount. Another odd thing about it is the I have seen some pretty awesome Fed players with their crusiers working great. Others... well meh. It is a measure of knowing what to do with the cruiser and how to use it. It is indeed a lose lose situation because you don't want a ton of complaining they already have that because of other matters. Until a measure is brought forward that pleases both sides I see it staying the way it is.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,269
# 10
09-20-2012, 07:02 AM
With regard to imbalance... Why should we have imbalance, Travelingmaster brought up the problem that ALL cruiser pilots face Fed and Klingon... Escorts, I actually find the cruisers fairly balanced when you take into account that klingon cruisers are built specifically for war and the Feds built for exploration as a primary purpose, HOWEVER, as a result of the battle cruisers the federations neighbours build fed cruisers are also built with a decent ability to defend themselves, No I'm not talking about tanking thats only half the job, yes fed cruisers can tank, but so can all the others, what fed cruisers do lack (at least from my experience) is the ability to lay down enough force on endgame NPCs to bring them down, you can tank until the cows come home... take everything in the game but if you can't dish out enough damage (my 6 beam excelsior manages to average 400 damage per hit on an unbuffed broadside get's up to 1700 per when fully buffed, but it's still not enough)then you aren't going to kill anything and will have to continue tanking until an escort turns up unless there isn't one in which case you're going nowhere.

The problem with instilling balance into the game again isn't cruiser or science ship pilots on either side, they both stand to benefit, it is the ESCORT pilots that will cry BS and foul play until the cows die because they can't obliterate something in 5 seconds flat on their own and that cruisers and science ships are actually competent combat ships... for some reason this would be wrong in their eyes...
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