Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,045
# 21
09-20-2012, 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
This is why I say buff the turnrates for Fed cruisers and KDF battlecruiser by the same amount of 1-2 points across the board evenly, so the feel of the bioth factions play does not drastically change and and afford a new advantage to iether side.
It will just make the feds feel a little more agile than before and leave the KDF feeeling the same as it always has in combat.
HMM, well I've been thinking about this.
And maybe it would make more sense to give both sides differnt flavours of cruiser:
large cruisers that can tank much (Galaxy/Star Cruiser/Negh'varMarauder)
medium cruisers that tank less and maneuver more (Sovereign/Vor'cha)
and small cruisers that can tank even less but actually turn really well (Excelsior/K't'inga).
Right now it seems rather arbitrary which ships have which turnrate and why, at least on the Fed side.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 22
09-20-2012, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paragon92518 View Post
You can't really go into Kerr'at with a bulky Cruiser. You'll get crushed quickly regardless of build. You must have an Escort or an Intrepid. Otherwise its no fun and a waste of your time going into places like that.
This is not true. I've seen plenty of cruisers tank well AND dish out some DPS (not as much as an escort or maybe a KDF battlecruiser, but still). You just have to get creative with your build and know when to activate skills, and you can't be afraid of speccing into your 1-2 offensive sci skills. Skill timing is an incredibly important feature that some players lack. Even I don't have it down all the time (especially when a nice overpowered fleet defiant is bearing down on me).
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 23
09-20-2012, 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
And that's the problem right there.
in STO the Fed cruisers have the exact same shield mod as the KDF counterparts.
I did like the solution from games liks SFC and Klingon Academy that basically gave the Feds more shields overall and balanced it with the reduced turnrate.
Here...this is missing.
Not all of them.

Fed vs. KDF
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 24
09-20-2012, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ooiue View Post
Exactly.

What I have observed in flying both Fed Cruisers and KDF Cruisers is that, KDF Cruisers do damage, and Fed Cruisers Tank. Thats why I specced my Vor'cha, Negh'var and Bortasqu' for damage, I fly all of the KDF Battle Cruisers (apart from the K't'inga) and I do fantastically well. When I fly my Fed, I can't do damage, but nobody can destroy me. Thats why I've always gone by the rule of:-

"Want a Tanky Cruiser? Play a Fed ship. Want a DPS Cruiser? Fly a Klingon ship."

That's a rule I love, because it gives me a reason to play both, and be brilliant at what they are intended for. Fed Cruisers are more for Tanking, Klingon Cruisers for DPS. Are they unbalanced? Not in the slightest. Why? Just because one Cruiser (take the Odyssey) is the Cruiser to end all Tanky Cruisers, doesn't mean its the best. The Bortasqu' is even debatable for being the best KDF Battle Cruiser, due to its low turn rate - as a result there is a reason to play all the KDF Battle Cruisers.

My point is, look at the way the fleets are designed. The KDF primarily rely on their Battle Cruisers and sometimes Raptors for pure up damage, with support Bird-of-Prey's, Carriers and Destroyers as support vessels. The Feds rely on Escorts for pure-up damage, because that's what they are designed to do, supported by healing Cruisers and debuffing Science ships. This is why KDF Battle Cruisers are like this, because they are the primary weapon for the KDF whereas the Fed Cruisers are not.
Your second paragraph is actually quite interesting, and a nice perspective on how the factions work. I agree, the BoPs (at least, at this point) are more of a support vessel that's primarily built for either hit-and-run sneak attacks, or for makeshift science support. That's why it's sorta hard to use a BoP like a Fed escort, they just don't have the stats to match. That's why they often 'gang up' in Ker'rat, having 2-3 attacking a target at once. It ensures a quick, efficient kill. Unfortunately, the way arena matches are set up precludes this behavior, at least in premade matches. Going in without cruiser support will get you killed really quickly.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 25
09-20-2012, 09:17 AM
/ agreed crusiers need a more competitive turn rate
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,337
# 26
09-20-2012, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkname View Post
Wait, what? The Regent can't use single annons effectively? Whatever the reasons for that, they have little to do with low turn rates, the arc on single cannons is solidly huge and I've never had a problem getting and keeping them firing.
I would argue that the Excel is a much better single cannon ship than the Regent can dream to be. The Regent is more of a 5-6 beam broadside ship with one dbb in the front and a 180 torp in the rear.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,045
# 27
09-20-2012, 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Not all of them.

Fed vs. KDF
Okay, then let's have a look:

T2
K'tanco has 1,500 less hull, same shield mod and +4 turnrate

T3
K't'inga has 2k less hull, same shield mod and +3 turnrate (and more fwd guns than any other ship at T3)

T4
Vor'cha has 2,500 less hull, same shield mod and +1 turnrate

T5
Negh'var has same hull and shields as any Fed cruiser except Galaxy that has 1k more.
Negh'var outturns every single one of them.

Vor'cha has 3k less hull, same shield mod and outturns the Negh'var.

If you had said the Bortas'qu is a horrible ship, you could've just said that.


And the one that I really find weird is the comparison between the Marauder and the Star Cruiser.
They are completely identical, hull, shields, consoles.
Except the Marauder has a better inertia rating, better impulse mod and a free hangar.
In other words it's just better.

I'm a proud KDF player.
I enjoy playing KDF a whole lot more than the Feds (they are like rice cookies to me) but I just don't get it from a balancing standpoint.

Last edited by misterde3; 09-20-2012 at 09:38 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,337
# 28
09-20-2012, 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
And that's the problem right there.
in STO the Fed cruisers have the exact same shield mod as the KDF counterparts.
I did like the solution from games liks SFC and Klingon Academy that basically gave the Feds more shields overall and balanced it with the reduced turnrate.
Here...this is missing.
That's the point that I was thinking about. Klinks can have better turn rates and DHC/DC and Feds have more hull and shield multipliers. Otherwise whats the difference between each others ship than the distinctive smell of the Klingon ships
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,045
# 29
09-20-2012, 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
That's the point that I was thinking about. Klinks can have better turn rates and DHC/DC and Feds have more hull and shield multipliers. Otherwise whats the difference between each others ship than the distinctive smell of the Klingon ships
I like the smell of Klingon ships.
From "The Left Hand of Destiny" pt.2 page 18:

Quote:
Every time she came aboard a Klingon vessel, Dax noted it.
She smiled at the memory of Curzon trying to explain it to young Ben Sisko:
"It's something between the smell of frying bacon, old-fashioned petroleum oil, and the yeasty smell of truly exquisite beer."
Only two of those smells (bacon and beer) were even in Ben's vocabulary, and since he had never been much of a beer drinker, let alone an excuisite beer drinker, combining their smells hadn't made sense to him.
And petroleum oil was a concept wholly lost on a modern twenty-fourth-century lad.
Benjammin might have been unable to truly appreciate "essence of bird-of prey", but it never failed to evoke a response in Dax. Da**ed if it didn't make Ezri wonder when was the last time that she had eaten.
Okay now I'm gonna go and find something salty and meaty to eat...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 30
09-20-2012, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Okay, then let's have a look:

T2
K'tanco has 1,500 less hull, same shield mod and +4 turnrate

T3
K't'inga has 2k less hull, same shield mod and +3 turnrate (and more fwd guns than any other ship at T3)

T4
Vor'cha has 2,500 less hull, same shield mod and +1 turnrate

T5
Negh'var has same hull and shields as any Fed cruiser except Galaxy that has 1k more.
Negh'var outturns every single one of them.

Vor'cha has 3k less hull, same shield mod and outturns the Negh'var.

If you had said the Bortas'qu is a horrible ship, you could've just said that.


And the one that I really find weird is the comparison between the Marauder and the Star Cruiser.
They are completely identical, hull, shields, consoles.
Except the Marauder has a better inertia rating, better impulse mod and a free hangar.
In other words it's just better.

I'm a proud KDF player.
I enjoy playing KDF a whole lot more than the Feds (they are like rice cookies to me) but I just don't get it from a balancing standpoint.
Sure whatever. I'm too tired to argue.

PS. K'tanco, yes I can see the KDF is completely OP there! Damn that's a cool ship to play with...........
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