Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,334
# 111
09-20-2012, 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
The Galaxy Class never was a support ship. It was a ship that was build to operate without support for several years. It was build so it could take care of itself, without having to rely on other ships.
Cryptics devs have degenerated the Galaxy class into a ship that is NOT anything like it was on TV.
If they would have made this ship more true to as it was intended, then it would be the best singleplayer ship in the Game, able to take care of itself, with limited support abilities but with a insane amount of versality, good survivability and good firepower (at least more Firepower than a Excelsior).
But it wouldn't be a slow flying brick without any significant firepower.



Lol, with only one Lt. tactical?
Every other ship can do that better. Even a Intrepid can have more offensive power with the right science powers.
That Saucer seperation is just a cheap excuse for the devs not to give the Galaxy class more firepower, it is just useless because you can't even use your ship as a reasonable torpedo boat, you just don't have enough tac BOFF slots for that.
Using your energy weapons to do dps?
Sorry but i had to laugh...


I would suggest that the devs should introduce a ship of their own design to become a "brick" or ultimate Tank or whatever you want to call it.
I wouldn't care if they would use one of their designs to fill that role, but i want my galaxy to be useful in that "role" we have seen it for so many years.
Additionally they should give us finally a Galaxy class that is more versatile and has more Firepower that that thing we have in the game.


Live long and prosper.
Use FAW2/BO2 and HY1/TS1 for your abilities, they add dps.

I am not sure we saw the same shows. The Galaxy class I saw was more like the Love Boat than a warship, they even had lookalike captains. It even steered like a luxury liner. Most of the time the ship was dealing with technologically inferior species or using political dogma to confront its enemies than actual hardcore fighting.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,768
# 112
09-20-2012, 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjumetley View Post
I call this BS. In the episode "The Best of Both Worlds" the voice of Borg explicitly states: "Capt Jean-Luc Picard, you lead the strongest ship in the Federation". Take into account it hase 12 (!) phaser arrays, two torpedo launchers and 250 torpedoes. Ship of peace my arse.

Everyoner talks about how the Galaxy Class appeared in the show. If yiou want that ship, it should have teh following limitations:

1) Can't fire a weapon until Shields are at zero percent (If you watch TNG you'd know that's teh ONLY situation when it returned any fire.)

2) In the middle of combat, the captain and all Boffs will be auto beamed into the ship's interior conference room for a random (2 to 5 minute briefing)

You want the 1701-D Galaxy Class from the TNG TV serries? Fine. It needs the above to behave like it did on show in combat.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,334
# 113
09-20-2012, 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post


They will never change their ship system, not alone because every escort pilot would rage if they would.

The only thing we can do is to present suggestions that make this game a bit more like as Star Trek should be.
I like your idea of restricted weapons for evey shipclass.
DHCs for Escorts. (we already have this)
Dual Beam Banks for Science Vessels. (wouldn't be a big problen, since Cruisers are just too slow)
Heavy Beam Arrays for Cruisers.
These "Heavy Beam Arrays", are only useable on the biggest Cruisers. These Weapons should do similar damag as the DHCs but they should also have a more narrow fireing Arc, but in contrast to DHCs not to the Front but to the ships sides. (maybe just 45 degrees, left and right)

So my question is: Why do Escorts have special Weapons, availlable only for them?
(since they are much more maneuverable and thus they have a real high defense value, escorts are clearly in favour.)

I am not asking to get the old conditions (Cryptics original stone/scissor/paper balance) but i want cruisers to get more "bite".
As i said Crusiers are just a big static target practices for Escorts. If STO where just a generic Sci Fi game this would be ok (if balanced correctly), but (sadly for cryptic) in Star Trek, all big Spaceships are Crusiers everything else is just support craft IMO.
The Galaxy Class being the most Iconic ship of them all, (at least for me). I personally being ashamed to use it, since it is nothng more than just a "healboat".
(Im shuddering while writing the word "healboat" in connection with the Galaxy Class, this is just wrong...)


Live long and prosper.
On the DBB and cruisers being "too slow", speak for yourself and your Galaxy, my Excels' and Sovy' types don't have problems keeping in arc to use them.

I agree that cruisers should have more power generated to support the ship. I would even go as far as to say that maybe escorts should have a similar weapons layout to the BOP,. Cruisers should have a lot more guns than the escorts do (not just a one weapon advantage).

I understand that you love the Galaxy, and that's fine. But its not the pinnacle ship of Star Trek, especially in regards to combat. The way you speak of it isn't to far from the players who have been calling for a tier 5 Connie.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,334
# 114
09-20-2012, 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
Everyoner talks about how the Galaxy Class appeared in the show. If yiou want that ship, it should have teh following limitations:

1) Can't fire a weapon until Shields are at zero percent (If you watch TNG you'd know that's teh ONLY situation when it returned any fire.)

2) In the middle of combat, the captain and all Boffs will be auto beamed into the ship's interior conference room for a random (2 to 5 minute briefing)

You want the 1701-D Galaxy Class from the TNG TV serries? Fine. It needs the above to behave like it did on show in combat.
Don't forget to add that Wesley Crusher nearly destroys the ship every third mission.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,793
# 115
09-20-2012, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
I agree with this. Thw whole MMO-concept doesn't pay enough tribute to the source material.

There shouldn't be any "tiers" of ships either. Light cruisers still have a purpose in battles when capital ships collide even though they don't feature as many guns. Every ship should be viable at every state in the game but for different tasks. Yet, these would also require a gameplay which surpasses the "go there, shoot this" pattern so before anyone rambles, no in current STO lower tiers have absolutely no purpose. Even the singleplayer part is so rushed that you're just annoyed of your uncapable "lower" ships...

But if we'd play another game, every ship should have specialized parts fitting it's actual class, some classes could use interchangeable modules (nebula/galaxy for example). In such a game we'd see smaller vessels partake in "endgame" content and fulfill a specific role to help the fleet complete different objectives. While cruisers would engage in long range combat, "escorts" (including light cruisers and "science" vessels) would protect them, outflank the enemy, support vessels would apply debuffs/buffs and even longer ranged support fire (anyone remembers "Birth of the Federation"? A game which classified the Nebula-class with tactical module as "long range artillery" to be placed behind your main fleet) while specialized parts of the fleet could pursue infiltration/S&R/sabotage objectives. Hell, I'd even play a tow ship in this setup, trator beaming disabled allies out of the danger zone...


You got a good point here.

There is no need for a Tier system at all. Different ships for different tasks.
There is also no need to start as a Ensign, Lieutenant and so on, since we're doing the same job anyway. We are the Captain of a Starship from the start, so there should just be different levels and nothing more.

If doing so every ship would have a different task when going into bigger engagements, but they would be also capable of taking care of themselves without being too redical underpowered in certain areas.


Live long and prosper.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 589
# 116
09-20-2012, 11:09 AM
I've been saying that for years. The problem is that there is only one task in this game - blow things up. Combat. For that, bigger ships and more firepower is all that matters.

I've put together a detailed revamp of some elements of the game that I'll be posting at some point, that addresses some of this. Perhaps it will get some attention this time.
Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh....php?t=1108521
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 117
09-20-2012, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by veraticus View Post
There are only 5 Galaxy Class starships ever destroyed. Including novels.

USS Asgard - The Asgard was destroyed at the Battle of Rashanar during the Dominion War. Even then this was not a complete destruction but rather a complete burnout by a Breen Thermal weapon that destroyed every system on the ship leaving it a floating husk waiting to be reclaimed. (TNG novel: A Time to Be Born)

USS Enterprise-D - I don't think I need to explain this one.

USS Monitor - In 2377, the Monitor fell victim to the Warden nanite virus. A rescue crew inadvertently triggered a Borg self destruct sequence. (ST video game: Away Team)

USS Odyssey - Destroyed in 2370. The Dominion war started in 2373 and ended in 2375.

USS Yamato - Destroyed by an Iconian Computer Virus. (TNG episode: "Contagion")

So even using non canon sources only one Galaxy Class was "destroyed" during the Dominion War.



In my own opinion. It is neither.
Its is how the game itself is laid out.

It allows for the smallest ship, fighters and shuttles excluded, to equip the exact same engines, weapons, shield, deflectors etc. as the largest most powered vessels in the game.
With zero drawbacks.

You would have to strip the game down and start from scratch to correct the system as it currently is. Again, this is simply my opinion.
Hmmm.... You got a good point there.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 118
09-20-2012, 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
My point was that there were numerous battles we never saw and they didn't document every ship they destroyed. There were mentions of entire fleets lost so it's not actualy possible to claim exact numbers of what types of ships were lost. Also the game does not take into account the class of warp core but we know that smaller ships had different classes of core and suffered no proportional performance loss. So I see no reason for the game to differentiate beyond the sector space warp speed limit placed on lower tier vessels. Remember what your slotting into that engine slot is listed as an impulse engine we have no controll over our warp cores. besides a larger ship would consume more power so the output difference between a cruiser's and destroyer's warp core would on application be less than on paper. And the shield modifier is supposed to reflect the disparity in shielding which is why escorts get a 10% reduction in strength. Besides you can take the shield off your oddy and slap it onto your runabout so fighters and shuttles are not discluded.
Just because a ship is larger don't mean it runs low on power making many systems less than adequate. If you ever looked at a cut away diagram of a the Enterprise-D there are redundant power reactors all over that ship. Its not just using power from the warpcore. The Sauser section had two in front of the impulse engines and the star drive section had one in from of the one impulse engine. The reactors are fusion reactors so that means nuclear power. If you know physics, then you will know that nuclear fusion is the most powerful source of energy that we know of. It is what powers the sun. Your ship size is not enough to drain power out of that kind of source.

Last edited by alexindcobra; 09-20-2012 at 01:37 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,793
# 119
09-20-2012, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by veraticus View Post
There are only 5 Galaxy Class starships ever destroyed. Including novels.

USS Asgard - The Asgard was destroyed at the Battle of Rashanar during the Dominion War. Even then this was not a complete destruction but rather a complete burnout by a Breen Thermal weapon that destroyed every system on the ship leaving it a floating husk waiting to be reclaimed. (TNG novel: A Time to Be Born)

USS Enterprise-D - I don't think I need to explain this one.

USS Monitor - In 2377, the Monitor fell victim to the Warden nanite virus. A rescue crew inadvertently triggered a Borg self destruct sequence. (ST video game: Away Team)

USS Odyssey - Destroyed in 2370. The Dominion war started in 2373 and ended in 2375.

USS Yamato - Destroyed by an Iconian Computer Virus. (TNG episode: "Contagion")

So even using non canon sources only one Galaxy Class was "destroyed" during the Dominion War.
If you subtract the non canon sources, ther where only 3 Galaxy class ships ever destroyed. (none of them during the Dominion war, btw.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by veraticus View Post
It allows for the smallest ship, fighters and shuttles excluded, to equip the exact same engines, weapons, shield, deflectors etc. as the largest most powered vessels in the game.
With zero drawbacks.

You would have to strip the game down and start from scratch to correct the system as it currently is. Again, this is simply my opinion.
I completely agree with you, that makes no sense.

The only thing i could imagine that would make the current system a bit more "realistic" (i know the devs are not interested in Trek realism), would be the introduction of a variety of Warp Cores, that generate a certain amount of energy.

The more powerfual a Warp Core is the more space it needs.
The bigger the ship the bigger the place for the Warp core, nothing really complicated and very easy and comprehensible, IMHO.


Live long and prosper.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,037
# 120
09-20-2012, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
If you subtract the non canon sources, ther where only 3 Galaxy class ships ever destroyed. (none of them during the Dominion war, btw.)
Sorry, but what is this?

http://imageshack.us/a/img845/1526/faceofevilfleet.jpg

In addition the obvious problem wiht this position is that if you only count ships that have been absolutely, defintively, specifically identified as destroyed we end up with only a hand full of ships destroyed in the entire war.
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