Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 178
# 121
09-20-2012, 03:17 PM
If you pay attention to DS9 specifically the Dominion War episodes, you see plenty of Miranda's fighting, more then Galaxy's. Why? In war you want a small ship armed relatively speaking to the teeth then a big ship with a large crew capacity.

When you do see the Galaxy's taking part in the action, its always as a tank, sit there and shoot the enemies big ships, as their shield systems and armor is strong enough to withstand the beating while they slowly break apart the enemy.

The Galaxy's 12 phaser arrays, 2 torpedo launchers verses the tiny Miranda with 6 phaser arrays, 2 tubular phasers ("cannons"), and a total of 4 torpedo launchers were used in DS9.

Your also talking about a crew complement of about one thousand verses a maximum of 34 on the Miranda. Let alone the additional construction costs for the Galaxy.

But this is one issue with STO (as a game dynamic not as the game itself), in reality, we should have double the Miranda's and Akira class ships in the PVE's etc, and double the number of fighters in each battle, but then since this is a game, no one would be willing to fly in "lowly" ships to be used as semi-cannon fodder while the bigger ships (Galaxy and Excelsiors) tank.

Jim
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,825
# 122
09-20-2012, 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
If you pay attention to DS9 specifically the Dominion War episodes, you see plenty of Miranda's fighting, more then Galaxy's. Why?
I know! ... I know!
Because Starfleet had much more old miranda class ships mothballed, than big expensive Galaxy Class ships.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
When you do see the Galaxy's taking part in the action, its always as a tank, sit there and shoot the enemies big ships, as their shield systems and armor is strong enough to withstand the beating while they slowly break apart the enemy.

The Galaxy's 12 phaser arrays, 2 torpedo launchers verses the tiny Miranda with 6 phaser arrays, 2 tubular phasers ("cannons"), and a total of 4 torpedo launchers were used in DS9.

Your also talking about a crew complement of about one thousand verses a maximum of 34 on the Miranda. Let alone the additional construction costs for the Galaxy.

But this is one issue with STO (as a game dynamic not as the game itself), in reality, we should have double the Miranda's and Akira class ships in the PVE's etc, and double the number of fighters in each battle, but then since this is a game, no one would be willing to fly in "lowly" ships to be used as semi-cannon fodder while the bigger ships (Galaxy and Excelsiors) tank.
Jim
Thats what i always was afraid of...
someone who takes STO as canon and thinks that STOs ship mechanic actually represents Star Trek....

Did it ever occur to you that a small Miranda Class may have a little less power at hand as a huge Galaxy Class?

Every time i see the battles of DS9 i tend to think that starfleet must have been very desperate to send ancient miranda class ships into a battle against such an dangerous enemy. The crews of those ships where doing suicide missions.

Do you seriously claim that their phaser arrays where just as powerful as the ones on a Galaxy Class?


Good night.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
T6 Guardian Class design / A 25th century Ambassador refit
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 178
# 123
09-20-2012, 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
Thats what i always was afraid of...
someone who takes STO as canon and thinks that STOs ship mechanic actually represents Star Trek....
If STO was cannon, we'd be limitting 20% of the fleet to the Miranda class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
Did it ever occur to you that a small Miranda Class may have a little less power at hand as a huge Galaxy Class?
Size is not relative to the ships strength especially cannoncally in Star Trek. Considering they added roll bars (to increase the weapon load out) in DS9, it stands to reason their standard weapons were also upgraded to what ever was best in Star Fleet issue at the time.

In addition to this, clearly the warp engines of the Miranda's were updated between TOS and DS9, and more then likely, the Miranda's had plenty of energy to use their guns to full capacity. And with having less shields and life support needed to run the ship into battle, even a smaller warp core is acceptable in that case.

Even today, Naval ships are older and get retrofitted to the newest RADAR, communications and weapon systems available all the time, only difference, in space your not dealing with salt water trying to rust the ship, so its very reasonable to expect longer service lifes of the hulls in space then on Earth, and even with that, there are some ships pushing 80 years still in active service in various navies world wide.

Heck look at the Defiant, size isn't everything.

Jim
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 124
09-20-2012, 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
If you pay attention to DS9 specifically the Dominion War episodes, you see plenty of Miranda's fighting, more then Galaxy's. Why? In war you want a small ship armed relatively speaking to the teeth then a big ship with a large crew capacity.

When you do see the Galaxy's taking part in the action, its always as a tank, sit there and shoot the enemies big ships, as their shield systems and armor is strong enough to withstand the beating while they slowly break apart the enemy.

The Galaxy's 12 phaser arrays, 2 torpedo launchers verses the tiny Miranda with 6 phaser arrays, 2 tubular phasers ("cannons"), and a total of 4 torpedo launchers were used in DS9.

Your also talking about a crew complement of about one thousand verses a maximum of 34 on the Miranda. Let alone the additional construction costs for the Galaxy.

But this is one issue with STO (as a game dynamic not as the game itself), in reality, we should have double the Miranda's and Akira class ships in the PVE's etc, and double the number of fighters in each battle, but then since this is a game, no one would be willing to fly in "lowly" ships to be used as semi-cannon fodder while the bigger ships (Galaxy and Excelsiors) tank.

Jim
What are you talking about? You are not making any sense. The reason there are more Miranda's battling in the Dominion War than the Galaxy's is because there are simply more Miranda's period. They were cheap and mass produced( like Fed vesrion of Tie fighters.) There aren't as many Galaxy Classes. Minus the Borg, there is nowhere in the TNG show or DS9 where a Galaxy Class slowly desrtoyed an enemy. They either decisivly disabled an enmy or destroyed them with ease. That shows an emmence powerful weapon system that Excelsior and Mirandas can't compare to.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,825
# 125
09-20-2012, 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
Size is not relative to the ships strength especially cannoncally in Star Trek. Considering they added roll bars (to increase the weapon load out) in DS9, it stands to reason their standard weapons were also upgraded to what ever was best in Star Fleet issue at the time.

In addition to this, clearly the warp engines of the Miranda's were updated between TOS and DS9, and more then likely, the Miranda's had plenty of energy to use their guns to full capacity. And with having less shields and life support needed to run the ship into battle, even a smaller warp core is acceptable in that case.

Even today, Naval ships are older and get retrofitted to the newest RADAR, communications and weapon systems available all the time, only difference, in space your not dealing with salt water trying to rust the ship, so its very reasonable to expect longer service lifes of the hulls in space then on Earth, and even with that, there are some ships pushing 80 years still in active service in various navies world wide.

Heck look at the Defiant, size isn't everything.

Jim
Even the defiants Warp Core had just a fraction of the power of a Galaxy classes Warp core.

There is a huge difference between todays weapon systems and star trek beam weapons, especially todays weapons don't need that much energy to operate.
Surely they could have refitted a Miranda Class with the newest sensors and computers but Weapon and defensive systems need a lot of power to operate.
First: You can't just slap some Galaxy Class phaser arrays into a Miranda Class and send it into battle. The whole ships power systems would need to handle power they never where constructed for (i hardly doubt that it is even possible to retrofit such an old ship to handle that much power).

Second: There is no way to install a Galaxy Class sized Warp core into a Miranda Class.



Live long and prosper.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
T6 Guardian Class design / A 25th century Ambassador refit
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 178
# 126
09-20-2012, 04:37 PM
[quote=alexindcobra;5778001]like Fed vesrion of Tie fighters.

The Federation has dedicated fighters ...

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Fede...attack_fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
There aren't as many Galaxy Classes.
That is sort of my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Minus the Borg, there is nowhere in the TNG show or DS9 where a Galaxy Class slowly desrtoyed an enemy. They either decisivly disabled an enmy or destroyed them with ease.
Humm no, such as in the push to get to Cardassia, the Galaxy's were used to take out the heavier Dominion ships while the rest pushed to break through the lines. And watching the battle, there was no "decisiveness" in the Galaxy's attack, they sit back and pound the bigger Dominion ships as the rest went into battle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
That shows an emmence powerful weapon system that Excelsior and Mirandas can't compare to.
Not really, if you watch DS9, and I mean sit there and watch it Excelsiors kill with just as much ease as the Galaxy class ships when they fire.

No modern Navy, just like no future "space fleet" would bring old equipment into the fight unless they had no choice. Over all most weapon systems are a question of number not "power" as ships would be equipped with the maximum number of weapon systems it can support through its warp core's energy output at the best possible strength weapons available.

Just because the United States took the Iowa class battle ships to war 40 years after they were first built, doesn't mean they left them like that, instead they armed them with the same cruise missiles and weapon platforms that then current new production ships had.

Jim
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 127
09-20-2012, 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post

Heck look at the Defiant, size isn't everything.

Jim
Remember the USS Valiant? It was the Defiant's sister ship. The ship found out the hard way that it can't go 1 on 1 with a Dominon Dreadnought, a ship slighty larger than the Galaxy.

In STO they made it to where ships like the Defiant, not only go 1 on 1 and win against Cruisers, but tank against 3 or more other ships. If you think that's the way canon Star Trek works, then you don't know Star Trek movies or shows and you are another one of those MMO groupies.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 178
# 128
09-20-2012, 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
Second: There is no way to install a Galaxy Class sized Warp core into a Miranda Class.
And the smaller Intrepid Class warp cores outputted more power then the Galaxy's by default, and that the Galaxy's warp core had to be modified to get it up to where the Intrepid was. And this is something mentioned in TNG, not Voyager.

So again, you fail to see that size =/= power in Star Trek.

Jim
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 178
# 129
09-20-2012, 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Remember the USS Valiant? It was the Defiant's sister ship. The ship found out the hard way that it can't go 1 on 1 with a Dominon Dreadnought, a ship slighty larger than the Galaxy.
Yes however, a experienced crew in a Defiant did mange to stop the USS Lakota, and handled itself well multiple times with superior numbers of Klingons and Dominion ships in the fight.

The point of the Valiant episode was sometimes people's ego's grow enough to consume them. The man makes the ship, the ship doesn't make the man.

Jim
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 130
09-20-2012, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
And the smaller Intrepid Class warp cores outputted more power then the Galaxy's by default, and that the Galaxy's warp core had to be modified to get it up to where the Intrepid was.
This is not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
And this is something mentioned in TNG, not Voyager.
No it wasn't. You don't know what you're talking about.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:07 PM.