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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,392
# 11
09-22-2012, 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocp001 View Post
Replys in green! And I just wanted to say thanks for all the advice from everyone.
.7 * 45 = 31.5 seconds vs 30 seconds when using 2 copies. EPTS3 >>> EPTS1 for not just the power, but the resists as well.

Tbo, i'm not sure what the cone is on CVS w/DHCs (what I normally run) vs w/Single Cannons if there's any difference at all. But, you would be spreading your 1 minute DEM3 and always on Tet Glider procs around keep in mind range doesn't matter w/these procs (or at least the Tet Glider proc not sure on DEM). I haven't seen the numbers on CVS1 vs CRF1 to know the difference in terms of A. Raw Damage and B. Number of Weapon Fires and how that impacts your weapon's power which in turn may lower your proc damage.

I tend to think of DPS cruisers as more AoE high pressure damage allowing Escorts to have more than 1 potential weakened target as well as making heal boats have to choose who to use repairs on. It's why I think they fit KDF team playstyle environment better generally speaking. But, for PuG single target may be better.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 260
# 12
09-22-2012, 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
.7 * 45 = 31.5 seconds vs 30 seconds when using 2 copies. EPTS3 >>> EPTS1 for not just the power, but the resists as well.

Added to my list of testing this week. Thank you!

Tbo, i'm not sure what the cone is on CVS w/DHCs (what I normally run) vs w/Single Cannons if there's any difference at all. But, you would be spreading your 1 minute DEM3 and always on Tet Glider procs around keep in mind range doesn't matter w/these procs (or at least the Tet Glider proc not sure on DEM). I haven't seen the numbers on CVS1 vs CRF1 to know the difference in terms of A. Raw Damage and B. Number of Weapon Fires and how that impacts your weapon's power which in turn may lower your proc damage.

I'm hazy about the cone of fire as well, but I thought that the difference in damage was either 10% or 15% between equivalent ranks with CRF being higher than CSV.

I tend to think of DPS cruisers as more AoE high pressure damage allowing Escorts to have more than 1 potential weakened target as well as making heal boats have to choose who to use repairs on. It's why I think they fit KDF team playstyle environment better generally speaking. But, for PuG single target may be better.

I will totally concede that the KDF has Battle Cruisers on lock-down, better in nearly every single way.
I look forward to trying this out.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 13
09-22-2012, 11:18 AM
Once we get the kinks of this setup ironed out, I will be adding this to my Cruiser 3.0 thread's table of contents.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,392
# 14
09-22-2012, 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Once we get the kinks of this setup ironed out, I will be adding this to my Cruiser 3.0 thread's table of contents.
I've got a similar layout for Fleet Torchat

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=12

It's the 2nd build listed. I'm using disrupters atm, but I'm thinking to be more effective (but a bit abusive) polarons would be better. It may overlap w/what you've already got listed, I can go into more detail w/it if you think it'd be helpful and not redundant.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 15
09-22-2012, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
I've got a similar layout for Fleet Torchat

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=12

It's the 2nd build listed. I'm using disrupters atm, but I'm thinking to be more effective (but a bit abusive) polarons would be better. It may overlap w/what you've already got listed, I can go into more detail w/it if you think it'd be helpful and not redundant.
You could go either way on the energy type really. Heck you could even go Tetryons on it.

Whip up a post with the aux to batt by itself and I'll move it into my TOC. Personally I've always been a believer that a ship that doesn't have a cmdr tac should have some form of burst damage so you can more efficiently use your ensigns.

So you could drop APO for CSV2, drop a CSV1 and put a HY2 (In your case I'd go Spread 2) in.

What you have will work okay, but imo it doesn't do enough to maximize the tac slots it has. (also with the aux to batt then you could drop the second TT for a THY1 or Torpspread 1 going with the opposite of what you put in the LT)
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 195
# 16
09-22-2012, 11:56 AM
A nice read, clearly you've put thought into this though I don't agree with everything.

I'll preface by saying that I don't like cannons on Federation cruisers. Though I know that it can work and be done very well, I'm really not a fan of loading cannons onto a Federation cruiser as the turn rate is very low and you bottleneck yourself into short burst sessions to make it work without additional Attack Patterns that you get on Escorts. It's much easier to run 7-8 beams and trying to maintain high dps as opposed to cycling alpha and beta strikes every 2-5 minutes.

That said, I'll move on.

----

One problem that I have with your build is that it's fairly squishy: you only have 2 copies of EPtS1 and that's just not enough to protect you against high burst and high dps ships that are coming at you. Yes you can back people off with FBP for 15 seconds under certain conditions, then RSP after that if you're really getting pressured after, and BFI as a last resort if the pressure keeps up but eventually you're going to hit a vacuum when all you've got is the EPtS1 up.

If I'm an escort or a Raptor or a BoP or any other fast/quick ship then I'll just sit on your ass and keep you from being able to significantly dps me and since you're in a Federation Cruiser there is very little that you can do about it with you strong weapons set to 180 arc and only 1 way to slow down the target.

Furthermore, Aux2Batt still puts your EPtS on cooldown, so if you time anything wrong or get pressed to capacity (or beyond) then the skill that you're counting on to keep everything running quickly will be completely unavailable to you or will probably end up waiting to respawn.

-

In regards to FomM, you really really have to hold off on it until you know your target's Tac team(s) are on cooldown otherwise it's wasted. It's not always easy to tell when it's available to your target, but I'm simply trying to say you should be very careful where you use it.

As for GDF, I'm of a bit different school of thought for its use, particularly on cruisers.

Escorts have sufficient additional damage buffs from Attack Patterns and higher quality buffs that you can save GDF for when you're ass is about to be grass. However on a cruiser, particularly a cruiser that's focused on bursting with a limited window you really should be more open with it's use, and so long as you're not going head first in against a Sci Captain you should run GDF as a regular part of your alpha for the added burst. Yes I know it's only 25% when you're at full health, but you NEED the added damage against heavy or fast ships to make them feel extreme enough pressure to break off their attack and heal.

Anyway those are just a couple initial thoughts.

Support a KDF equivalent to the Vesta Here

Last edited by therealsivar; 09-22-2012 at 12:00 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 260
# 17
09-22-2012, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Once we get the kinks of this setup ironed out, I will be adding this to my Cruiser 3.0 thread's table of contents.
Would be very happy to contribute to the ultimate cruiser thread. Give me a couple days to run through all the suggestions.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 18
09-22-2012, 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocp001 View Post
I was under the impression that the console worked only in assault cruisers (no Excelsior). Seriously I read your cruiser thread every time there is a new post.

@Redricky I'm Totally going to try TBR over the weekend. That is some serious out of the box thinking.

If either of you are on this week, throw me a line in-game @joseph.b I'm always looking to learn and improve!
I can't take credit for it, the beauty of a tac buffed TBR was made clear by me eating one. I think it was drunk or Bob the Yak, but I'm not sure. And using it when Omega is up was from one of those smoky room discussions. I just ride the coattails of the innovators.

Oh, and when I said FBP is a trap, I meant for the user. All it does is make the other guy shoot at your mate. It's so tempting because it can be tac buffed, but really, I'd stay away from it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 822
# 19
09-23-2012, 12:35 AM
I've tried a similar set up in the past repeatedly and while I've found it moderately successful, a few problems show up.

1 - The more maneuverable escorts will just get behind you, especially when it's a ship like the Odyssey. Also to keep something in your arc will generally mean slowing down, which can be deadly for a tac cruiser.

2 - Put a tractor beam on a tac cruiser and it becomes a sitting duck that's easier to blow away then most escorts. Seriously an escorts survivability is much higher if it has 2x APO.

3 - The biggest flaw with a cannon build I've found is the Borg set and shield doff procs. Cannons set them off like crazy.

4 - The build is cannon fodder for bugs.

5 - The aux2bat cooldown ability is great, but you have to remember to keep on hitting it at every available chance otherwise it becomes a liability. This also causes a slight problem due to the aux power drain, which can only be countered by an aux battery every so often.

Basically if the other team was made up of anything but escorts (or their escorts are poor), then yes this is a great build.

Now yes this wouldn't be a problem as part of a premade, but then nor would flying a tier 3 ship.

On your actual set up.

1 - I'd get rid of EWP1. Unless your build has the immobilize doff or the target is a newbie it'll have little effect. Eng/Cruisers don't rely that much on maneuverability and the majority of escorts have at least one APO.

2 - FBP1 only does anything noticeable when buffed by tac powers so it's a waste, much better to use TSS2.

3 - Unless you're going to have crf on a cycle, it's not really worth taking cannons. Much better with an Excelsior or Regent.

4 - No reason to have an EPS flow regulator unless you're thinking about quickly switching power settings.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai

Last edited by orondis; 09-23-2012 at 12:45 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 20
09-23-2012, 07:57 AM
Finally! some talks about dedicated spike damage per second cruisers i just got killed by one ;O ummmmmmm

Whats so hard that it needs a whole tutorial?

8x Beams
Eptsx2, EptWx2, FaWx2/BOx2

Full weapons power.

Rotate your cruiser for broadsiding.

Put your weapons on autofire.

Done?

Or ... am i missing something? Yes please put the Tac captain in a Star Cruiser.


Really tho you can never do damage close to a Tac escort, Not sure what Tac escorts you compared it with...
Ah yeh, the DEM and other hull bleed effects, that can still get yourself close to a good escorts 'damage' in the scoreboard, but practically there is a huge difference never the less. Lots of 'fake' dmg as we call it.


MT-

Last edited by darkfader1988; 09-23-2012 at 08:01 AM.
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