Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 844
# 11
09-21-2012, 12:58 AM
I think it would be more effective to allow us to pay in order to place actual rewards in our mission. Like it would cost a certain number of c-points in order for us to place a specific item at the end of our missions, or alternatively a level appropriate random item.

Unfortunately, before they do that they need a way to judge how long it took to play a mission, so we don't end up with a bunch of console clickers spitting out loot.

I guess from that standpoint the vendor may make sense, since it's not as easily abused. But really, it wouldn't take more than 5 minutes for "Joe Blows Market" to appear on the Foundry, which would effectively be a "console clicker' that consists of nothing but that vendor. So, realistically, it wouldn't end up bringing anyone to our missions.

I think it would be cool if we could add vendors regardless, though, even if only standard types with nothing special on them.


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Last edited by nagorak; 09-21-2012 at 01:01 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,439
# 12
09-21-2012, 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagorak View Post
I think it would be more effective to allow us to pay in order to place actual rewards in our mission. Like it would cost a certain number of c-points in order for us to place a specific item at the end of our missions, or alternatively a level appropriate random item.

Unfortunately, before they do that they need a way to judge how long it took to play a mission, so we don't end up with a bunch of console clickers spitting out loot.

I guess from that standpoint the vendor may make sense, since it's not as easily abused. But really, it wouldn't take more than 5 minutes for "Joe Blows Market" to appear on the Foundry, which would effectively be a "console clicker' that consists of nothing but that vendor. So, realistically, it wouldn't end up bringing anyone to our missions.

I think it would be cool if we could add vendors regardless, though, even if only standard types with nothing special on them.
You'll be happy to know that this tech has already shown up in the NW Foundry and it's only a matter of time before it filters its way over to STO.

@greendragoon
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 13
09-21-2012, 07:17 AM
We bring content for free to them and we would have to pay for it? Never read a more ridiculous and outrageous idea.

As soon as they start selling foundry assets or elements I stop making missions right away. No need to ever *think* about it my decision is already made.

It's like making your own bread at home, then taking it to the baker and having to buy it to get it to pay the wage of the salsewoman. It makes no sense at all. Just a hint: if you want to sell bread, get to work and make it yourself.

I don't work for Cryptic and I don't intend to pay to give them what their game needs most, and TBH I'm pretty sure the current balance of the game is positive enough to provide some content you don't have to pay for...

Last edited by diogene0; 09-21-2012 at 07:28 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,876
# 14
09-21-2012, 08:02 AM
I understand that argument diogene0, but my thought is that until the Foundry is at least bringing in some money, they won't dedicate the time to put in all the thousands of things we ask for. And I'd only say its acceptable if they charge for added frills, not for the meat and potatoes if you will.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 15
09-21-2012, 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
I understand that argument diogene0, but my thought is that until the Foundry is at least bringing in some money, they won't dedicate the time to put in all the thousands of things we ask for. And I'd only say its acceptable if they charge for added frills, not for the meat and potatoes if you will.
Well if the only motive to publish new game elements is immediate profit I think PWE should sell cryptic now before the company brankrupts. But I'm confident they know that a game isn't only about c-store ships, fed c-store costumes, lockbox stuff. Players need something to do with that, and the Foundry is all what the studios management like: every single element they add means it will be used to create thousands of hours of gameplay. Which means damn cheap content for them, and we know how much they love that.

If they are unable to invest in their own game there's no point developping it anymore because it's already dying. So, believe me, they can provide foundry content without a cost for authors. Selling that would be pure greed and will for sure create a lot of discontentement in the author's community.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,876
# 16
09-21-2012, 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
But I'm confident they know that a game isn't only about c-store ships, fed c-store costumes, lockbox stuff.
I would really love for them to look at it like that, but thus far it seems to me that they haven't, because that's what their efforts seem to be focused toward: more lockboxes, more c-store ships, more fed costumes. Their last big update was a massive currency sink and the thing that people were most excited about, cost a ridiculous amount of real money in addition to the grind for a character-only unlock (fleet ships)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
every single element they add means it will be used to create thousands of hours of gameplay.
I completely agree, so why aren't they doing it? In S6 we got a few new things, which are nice, but there are hundreds of other assets and elements that are there that have not been added, things we've asked for for more than a year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
If they are unable to invest in their own game there's no point developping it anymore because it's already dying. So, believe me, they can provide foundry content without a cost for authors. Selling that would be pure greed and will for sure create a lot of discontentement in the author's community.
Again I agree, but their pattern of decision making leading up to now has shown a reluctance to put resources into things that don't get them a return on investment. Mind you they haven't 100 percent given up on content that you don't have to pay for, but I do see a pattern. I hope I am proven wrong, I would love for them to put everything we want in the Foundry out of the goodness of their hearts, but it seems unrealistic.

Keep in mind this is all just speculation. Obviously neither I nor anyone else in this thread has the slightest say in what Cryptic will and will not do.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
Forum Logic dictates that if the devs don't do what a poster wants, they therefor actively hate what that poster is advocating for.
Forum Logic =/= Real Logic
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,681
# 17
09-21-2012, 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagorak View Post
I think it would be more effective to allow us to pay in order to place actual rewards in our mission. Like it would cost a certain number of c-points in order for us to place a specific item at the end of our missions, or alternatively a level appropriate random item.

Unfortunately, before they do that they need a way to judge how long it took to play a mission, so we don't end up with a bunch of console clickers spitting out loot.

I guess from that standpoint the vendor may make sense, since it's not as easily abused. But really, it wouldn't take more than 5 minutes for "Joe Blows Market" to appear on the Foundry, which would effectively be a "console clicker' that consists of nothing but that vendor. So, realistically, it wouldn't end up bringing anyone to our missions.

I think it would be cool if we could add vendors regardless, though, even if only standard types with nothing special on them.
That's kind of what I was going for with the idea of Foundry exclusive vendors.

My thing is, more people play than author, I assume.

So if they charged authors for the rewards, they'd need authors to drop upwards of a hundred dollars for something like a costume or bridge officer. Because the economic opportunity cost of letting an author give the reward is that Cryptic can't sell the item. (Maybe this would work for less if they took things that already exist on the C-Store that were bad sellers and let Foundry authors get the right to hand them out.) The only way I could see to offset this would be by having authors agree that in exchange for certain rewards, they'll put C-Store ads in their mission completion dialogue or something like that because that would potentially offset the lost revenues. Or it could be indirect, like collecting player testimonials for C-Store items and then, if they use your testimonial, you get a reward from a list, including a Foundry reward option.

My thought was that by making it a vendor, they could charge dilithium and dilithium IS effectively money. (Depending on how they do their books but there are ways to treat all dilithium as cash, internally.) So part of the expense of the reward gets covered by each player and part gets covered by the author as a cheap one time fee to raise the profile of their mission.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 547
# 18
09-21-2012, 01:26 PM
I make it no secret that I believe any kind of monetization (beyond what technically is already in place for F2Pers in getting DL to open up slots) is bad for the Foundry. I believe the only way to encourage growth in the community, other than what is already in the pipeline (mission rewards, I'm looking at you and swooning) is to keep the costs on creating down. Any kind of charge for any specific sets of assets or abilities in foundry construction would be a waste. A waste for us and a waste for Cryptic who'd probably make very little money off it. Lets face it, the foundry author community isn't large, not to mention large enough to turn a profit from sales that are exclusively for us.

I seem to be reading a trend in the posts that pop up like this. The thought is that if they made more money off of a feature, then they'd put more effort into it to make more. The logic is sound, I won't deny that. However, logic doesn't work in all situations, rational does.

We're forgetting that cryptic isn't huge. I don't know it's numbers, I won't pretend I do. But from what I know it is a small studio with personnel working to build, run, and maintain 3 separate games. Only a certain amount of them are working on STO, and only 5 or so are working on Foundry; primarily for NW.

The world we live in doesn't have replicators yet, so for now, people can't work to better themselves or their artforms/work for no pay. They need money for things like food, relationships, and vidja games like the rest of us. To get more people working on the Foundry via the Foundry making money it would have to make enough to justify the salaries of anyone put on the job to make more stuff/do more work. I'm not going to guess a salary, but it's probably little better than inter... err... slave labor.

If a monetized foundry was going to make enough money to hire a person, it would have to come from us. Or worse, players (who already don't have a reason other than personal interest) to pay for access beyond normal game fees.

I'll be blunt, we can't do that.

In fact, if they put out those things, we'd loose numbers and would get hurt more.

The best way the foundry can encourage more money to the game is as another thing for players to do, another reason for players to spend time in the game where they are exposed to more C-store objects, lock box keys, and anything else the F2P game can encourage them to spend money on if they'd like.

What's happening is I bet people are feeling starved enough for new assets and features in the Foundry that some are trying to say that they'd be willing to put up money just in order to get them. I don't think that's going to work.

I wish I could give an alternative other than simply waiting, which many authors are already vocal about being tired of doing, but I can't. Only thing we can, and should do, is play the game. If we have fun making the missions and playing them, that's what we do. If we've reached a point where it is unfun, we stop. That's what it comes to.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 19
09-22-2012, 05:27 AM
Well I wouldn't mind lockbox drops in foundry missions, there's no possible abuse for this and it might increase the sales since a good foundry mission can put people in a good mood.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 29
# 20
09-22-2012, 02:55 PM
Asset packs would be an awesome idea! It would not only give profits to Cryptic/PWE, but would Foundry authors much needed content to add to their missions. The players would be happy as well because they would get even more quality missions. It's a win-win scenario for all of STO: the devs, authors, and players.
Star Trek: Lockbox

Kirk: Scotty, Stuff that 2 million ton D'kora into the Lockbox or else STO fails.
Scotty: I canna change the laws of physics!!!!!!
Kirk: Of course you can you're a miracle worker.
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